Originally posted by Thresh:

And about how you was asking about the part in the Bible when it says but Lord Lord and Jesus says i never knew you Depart well thats why i put this for you to help you understand it. But Lord, Lord…I Never Knew You; Depart From Me! Have you ever asked yourself what the “Lord, Lord…I never knew you; depart from Me” scripture means? Probably you have. Most believers I come across have at some point wondered what it means and have felt frightened by it.

Today I want to bring clarity to this part of the Sermon on the Mount.

Let’s first read the passage we’re talking about.


Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away [depart] from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:21-23, brackets mine)

The will of the Father

The people Jesus never knew were doing many things in Jesus’ Name. They prophesied, drove out demons and even performed many miracles. Yet they were not doing the will of the Father! In fact, Jesus calls them evildoers.

To ensure you never hear Jesus say: “I never knew you, depart from Me, you evildoers” you only need to do one thing…

…the will of the Father.

Thus, to understand what they key phrase “doing the will of the Father” means will unlock this whole passage. What then, is the will of the Father?

Looking through the right lens

As I’ve said before, we can interpret scripture either through a legalistic lens or a grace lens, also known as an Old Covenant lens or a New Covenant lens.

The big difference is that in the Old Covenant God had to deal with people according to their works (law).

In the New Covenant, however, God deals with people according to Jesus’ work (grace).

Mixing the New with the Old results not only in confusion and condemnation but also creates fear.

Let’s make it practical by defining “doing the Father’s will” through an Old Covenant lens and then through a New Covenant lens.

Old Covenant lens

Remember, under the Old it’s about you and what you do. Use an Old Covenant lens and you’ll interpret “doing the Father’s will” as follows:
You have to serve God faithfully
You need to count the cost and give up everything for Jesus
You need to make sure to obey the Commandments
You need to deny yourself and take up your cross daily
You got to be red hot with fiery love for Jesus
You must live holy to remain saved
…and the list goes on and on…

There’s bad news and good news taking this path.

The bad news is that you’ll never do enough and never measure up to these self-imposed rules. In fact, you’ll be struggling with pride, sin, lust and envy because the Old Covenant law stirs up sin (1 Cor. 15:56).

This is what Paul has to say about this legalistic approach to scriptures and life:


I know that these regulations look wise with their self-inspired efforts at worship, their policy of self-humbling, and their studied neglect of the body. But in actual practice they do honour, not to God, but to man’s own pride (Col. 2:23, Phillips).

New Covenant lens

The good news is that there’s a way out of this religious matrix. You get of the religious treadmill by learning to understand the New Covenant of grace. Remember, under the New it’s about Jesus and what He has done!

Looking through the New Covenant Grace lens

By reading “doing the will of the Father” through a New Covenant lens you’ll come to understand that it has nothing to do with external behavior like:

Doing what God told you to do (e.g. loving your neighbour, fulfilling your calling, renewing your mind, giving money to the poor, witnessing to the lost, etc.), or


Not doing what God told you not to do (e.g. not stealing, lying, cheating, envying, boasting, etc.)


To think that doing the will of the Father is either doing good or avoiding evil is relating to God through the Old Covenant Law.

The logic goes, if you do what He tells you to do, you’re doing His will. Or, if you are not doing what God told you not to do, you’re also doing His will.

This is simply not true because the New Covenant believer does not relate (or is not suppose to relate) to God based on their obedience or lack thereof but based on Jesus’ perfect obedience, which is imputed unto us as a free gift.

In other words, the “will” that Jesus is speaking about is not the keeping or breaking of any of the Old or New Testament Commandments.

Salvation by works

God’s wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim. 2:4). If it were true that doing God’s will was based on something we do or don’t do then it would be possible to be saved by works.


Do this and that, and you’ll be saved.

That’s exactly the lie that the prophetic, miracle-performing evildoers had bought into.

They basically said, “Jesus, Jesus, look at what mighty works we’ve done in Your Name. We’ve done this and that, now let us enter the kingdom of heaven.” In other words, “We deserve our place in the kingdom because…we’ve professed Your Name and done great things in Your Name.”

As you know, a person isn’t saved by works. Regardless if someone professes Jesus’ Name or does mighty miracles, nobody is saved by works for it is by grace we are saved, through faith – and this is not from ourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. (Eph. 2:8).

Believe in Jesus

These miracle-working people missed out on experiencing Jesus eternal acceptance because they didn’t do the will of God.

“So if doing God’s will does not point to what I do or don’t do, then what does it mean through a grace lens?”

I’m glad you’re asking.

In John 6:28 Jesus was asked this same question, “What must we do to do the works God requires? In other words, the crowd asked, “what does it mean to “work” the works of God or to “do” the will of God.

Note Jesus’ answer: “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Even though this expression “the work of God” seems to imply that we have to do some external action or work, actually refers to an action of faith, of placing our trust in Jesus Christ. This is what it means to do the will of the Father.

God actually considers belief in His Son as work. This one act is all our Father requires from you.

Jesus repeats Himself in verse 40 in case we’ve missed it: “For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day” (John 6:40).

Can it be any clearer?

To believe in Jesus is to do the will of the Father!

Once you believe in Him you do no works any more…from then on everything you do is letting God do His work through you.

To do the will of God does not mean to doing good or avoiding evil, for it has nothing to do with our level of obedience, but it refers having received Christ.

Simply put, if you have accepted Christ, you have fulfilled the will of the Father and you will not be rejected as if He never knew you for “He cannot deny Himself” (2 Tim. 2:13).

May you always remember that to do the will of God means to believe in Jesus!

Unsaved

It follows that the evildoers to whom Jesus said “depart from Me” is referring to the unsaved. It’s important to know that whenever the New Testament refers to “evildoers” or “practicing lawlessness” it does not have the same meaning as under the Old Testament when people were still judged according to the law.

Jesus also said to them “I never knew you”. This tells us two things.

Firstly, that someone who knows the Lord but fails to do everything that He tells them to do has no fear that they will be rejected at heaven’s gates, for they have known Jesus.

Secondly, that in fact He was referring to unbelievers. As a side note: what most people miss is that Jesus is talking about the same people in verse 23 as He was in verse 15 when He warned about the false prophets that would come in sheep’s clothing.

New Covenant Grace

A New Day

Unfortunately it’s commonly believed that someone does the Father’s will when he or she is doing what God called them to do, whether it be a teacher, plumber, stay at home parent, accountant, etc. That would be true under the Old.

Under the New, even if you stopped walking in your calling, God doesn’t consider you having stopped doing His will.

Probably you would be miserable because you are not using the gift that God gave you to do, but you would not have to fear to be “outside of God’s will” or to fear being rejected at the judgment day.

Beloved, it’s truly a New Day we’re living in – His Name is Jesus!

Jesus is not looking at what you do or don’t do. You are not under the law whereby you do your utmost best to be a good Christian in order that God would be satisfied.

God is already satisfied by what Jesus did on the cross for you, as you.

Note, I am not promoting a lifestyle of sin or laziness for our actions do have consequences.

But I am saying that the only work God wants from you is to believe in Jesus. Only believe. Accept His work on the cross as a finished work and you’ll cease from your own works.

As a result, you’ll live more holy and happy by accident, then you did on purpose before!

How can it be that…

You might wonder how anyone can cast out demons and work miracles in Jesus’ Name if they aren’t truly born again.

Have a look at Mark 9. Here we see that an unsaved person was going around casting out demons in the Name of Jesus. The disciple John got upset and forbade him because he didn’t follow Jesus (Mark 9:38-40).

How can an unsaved person perform supernatural deeds? My friend, the Name of Jesus has so much power that even people whom He never knew will (not maybe) prophecy, cast out devils and perform miracles (Matt. 7:21-23).

What’s the flip side? If a person who’s not empowered by the Holy Spirit can prophecy, cast out demons and perform miracles in the Name of Jesus, how much easier should it be for a Holy Spirit’s empowered believer to perform supernatural signs and wonders!

To sum up

To enter the kingdom of heaven a person needs to do the will of the Father. Contrary to Old Covenant teachings “to do the Father’s will” has nothing to do with some external action or work. Rather, Jesus defines doing the Father’s will as man placing faith in Jesus Christ.

Once you belief in Jesus you’re effortlessly doing the Father’s will for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill His good purpose (Phil. 2:13).

Your job is to believe; that is to rest in the finished work so that God can do His transforming work in and through you.

For I am confident of this very thing, that He (that is not you) who began a good work in you will perform it until the the day of Christ Jesus (Phil. 1:6, brackets mine).

Rock on, now we are not saying some games are not sinful but talk it over with god and i hope all these post help you in your walk with Christ God bless :)

YEs but what about proof?

Originally posted by Thresh:

D loaded dont think of it like that im not saying some games are sinful but not all thats why i said to talk to god about it and here read my other post after that one so you will get a better understanding what i mean ok. yes our Actions matter. but when we put all of our Faith and Trust in Jesus. we will start to live right and see the wrong we are doing in our lives. To Repent from Sin means to Change your Mind about Sin. plz read my other post after the one you put up there thats why i put up some others to help you and try to just relax and take your time reading and about what you call fun as in Sex Violence we have those wants because The Flesh Wants to Sin. the Flesh is all about that. that is Why you need Jesus he is the only one that can help you over come that and he will all you have to Do is have Faith and Trust in Him. and also your trying to Hard to understand everything about God we can not that is why we are called to Have Faith. but look at my other post i put up to help you thats all im trying to do ok i hope you can see that. and im sorry you feel that you feel you need Proof but let me tell you ive been a hardcore gamer for many many years and thought nothing of playing games with Sex blood Gore and all that and not only that but i was all about myself and did not give a crap what anyone thought about me and if anyone said something to me i didnt like i would cuss them out like mad and guess what the more and more i lived like that the more i hated my life hated my family and hated people around me and like you i would say well if god was real this would not happen or that and Etc looking at what you posted looks just like something i would have said back in my day but let me tell you something and you dont have to think that what i am saying is the Truth that is up to you but i got to a point in my life where even with Gaming 24/7 and doing stuff i thought was Awsome and fun well guess what it didnt keep me going oh sure when a new game came out ohh yeh this is great and i felt happy for a very very short time but when the newness of the game ran off i felt that old same great empity void in my life and nothing could feel it so then i got to such a low point in my life that i told myself i need to do something otherwise i cant keep going like this so i really got into my Bible and found some great Websites of people who helped me Find Jesus and to know that he loves us sooo much and forgives us for all of our sins if we will just trust in him here i want to share his website with you http://basrijksen.com/ and ofc you dont have to click the link just google it and check it out it helped me out so much and after i got saved i had such a feeling of Peace and love the likes i have never had before and now gaming nor any of the Fun stuff i use to think was fun means not even Near as much to me as it use to sure i still game every now and then for fun but i have no want or desire to play the real bloody Volence type games that i use to and my Desire for cussing for treating people like dirt and sex and everything has pretty much gone away do i still get Tempted sure i do but now i can overcome it not because of me but Because of Jesus working though me. so i hope this helps if it does not then i am sorry but im just trying to show you that no matter what you think god loves you more then you will ever know and Jesus died for You now tell me who on earth today would give there son to Die for you like god did ? who. And when you say its not about Actions its about faith your missing the Point when you are Truely saved you will know what i mean all that want to do stuff you know is wrong will go away you will feel like a new person sure you will still have your sinful nature but when you are saved god puts a new Nature along side the old and that is the Holy Spirt and you will find yourself wanting to live for God and you will still have a War going on inside you between your old self and your New Nature but that war inside of you Shows that you have been saved and as you read your Bible and grow closer to God you will find that the New Nature that is in you will become Greater then your old Sinful Nature . and about this Now of course your going to give me the response that all good christians give there is no reason to treat me like that i never said im a Good Christian i have pleanity of faults and make Mistakes but im trying my Best to help you ok so plz dont act like that.

"i told myself i need to do something otherwise i cant keep going like this so i really got into my Bible and found some great Websites of people who helped me Find Jesus" So what really happend to you is your brain was sershing for evidence of meaning in life, but couldent find anything, becasue theres nothing, so you want and found people who helped you train your brain to misidentify normal stuff that heppens to you as acts of god. I coverd this in my part at the top.
- "your braid is warped from when you where a child to believe in god that your brain acctually goes out and finds stuff to show you as evedence of god, stuff that ordenary people would blow off as normal. Ive expirenced this myself. good things i thanked god for, bad things I blamed satan for. But when my levels of faith drop to near nothingness (like they are now) I notice that the frequency and ratio of good things and bad things has stayd exactly the same! thereby proving at least to myself, that god had no part in any of those good things. when i am out of the faith I feel myself being called back, when im in the faith i feel myself being compelled to sin."

Originally posted by Thresh:

It seems everyone has an opinion about James and how his letter fits (or doesn’t fit) into the New Testament. I thought I had heard everything, but this week, one of my readers sent me Scofield’s take on the book of James:

“..his epistle shows no trace of the larger revelations of the church and the distinctive doctrines of grace made through the apostle Paul…”

The implication being that James was not on the same page as Paul when it came to the gospel of grace. Their letters do not line up because James did not get it.

I can understand how a superficial glance at one or two verses in James might give you this impression. But do you really believe that 26 books in the New Testament preach the same gospel message while James preaches another? Paul said if anyone preached a gospel different to his, that person should be condemned to hell (Gal 1:9). If James is preaching something fundamentally different from Paul, then the NT writers are a house divided. And if the writers of the Bible do not agree with each other, then the Bible cannot be trusted.

I take a different view.

In this series on James, I have maintained that Paul and James were very much on the same team. I have dropped a few clues here and there, but now it’s time to lay all my cards on the table. To do that I’m going to present some scriptures side-by-side to show that not only were Paul and James on the same wavelength, but they preached the good news exactly as Jesus modeled it. Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. It is His gospel that the New Testament writers proclaimed.

To give you a quick example, take a look at what Jesus, Paul and James have to say to people who do not perceive their need for God’s grace:

Jesus: “You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.” (Rev 3:17)
Paul: “Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God…” (1 Tim 6:17)
James: “Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you.” (Jas 5:1)

If wealth is the source of your identity and security, that’s a three-way blast of truth right there. Boom, boom, boom! If you only read the red letters of the Bible, you’re going to get the message. If you only read Paul’s letters, you’re going to get the message. If you only read James’s epistle, you’re going to get the message. You can’t miss it.

And that’s just the beginning.

As we will see in this little safari through scripture, things that were important to Jesus, were also important to Paul and James. Below is a list of 12 statements that you might hear from any grace preacher. Under each statement I have pasted sound bites from Jesus, Paul and James showing their complete agreement on the essential elements of the gospel. They may say things a little differently, but they are saying the same things.

1. The law is good and demands perfect obedience

Jesus: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them… Be perfect…” (Mt 5:17,48)
Paul: “It is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’” (Gal 3:10)
James: “Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” (1:10)

2. The law (which enslaves) reveals our need for Jesus (who frees us)

Jesus: “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me… Abide in me…” (Jn 5:39, 15:4)
Paul: “Through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.” (Rms 8:2), “and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” (2 Co 3:17)
James: “But he that fixes his view on the perfect law, that of liberty, and abides in it … shall be blessed.” (1:25, Darby)

3. Your choice: the world or His kingdom

Jesus: “What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul?” (Mt 16:26)
Paul: “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?…Therefore come out from them and be separate….” (2 Cor 6:14,17)
James: “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God?” (4:4)

4. The good news: God offers you His unmerited favor!

Jesus: “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor… to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” (Lk 4:18-19)
Paul: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith…” (Eph 2:8)
James: “But He gives us more grace… God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” (4:6)

5. So trust in the gospel…

Jesus: “Repent and believe the good news!” (Mk 1:15)
Paul: “I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes…” (Rms 1:16)
James: “Humbly accept the word planted in you which can save you.” (1:21)

6. …and repent – change the way you think and live.

Jesus: “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.” (Mt 7:24)
Paul: “I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.” (Acts 26:20)
James: “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says… Faith without works is dead… Submit to God… Come near to God.” (Jas 1:22, 2:17, 4:7-8)

7. It is not about you – it is God who makes us acceptable…

Jesus: “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.” (Jn 3:17)
Paul: “Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints.” (Col 1:12)
James: “Humble yourselves before the Lord and He will lift you up.” (4:10)

8. …but don’t delay; there are consequences for rejecting God’s grace.

Jesus: “If you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.” (Jn 8:24)
Paul: “For God has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed.” (Acts 17:31)
James: “For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant… In the same way, the rich man will fade away…” (1:11)

9. He wants to live His abundant life through you…

Jesus: “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” (Jn 10:10)
Paul: “… how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.” (Rms 5:17)
James: “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights” (1:17).

10. …giving you victory in all things…

Jesus: “In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” (Jn 16:33)
Paul: “No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.” (Rms 8:37)
James: “Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray… The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (5:13,16)

11. …and enabling you to do the mighty works of God.

Jesus: “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these.” (Jn 14:12)
Paul: “For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” (Eph 2:10)
James: “You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.” (2:22)

12. Now go and tell others the good news of God’s grace!

Jesus: “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.” (Mk 16:15)
Paul: “Do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.” (2 Tim 4:5)
James: “Remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.” (5:20)

As you can see, James was not marching to the beat of a different drummer. He only wrote two letters that we know about (the other one is in Acts 15), but his message was essentially the same message that Jesus lived and Paul preached.

One last thing: Theologians have long noted that James never quotes Jesus. Except that he did – he just didn’t do it in his letters. In the years just prior to the Roman destruction of Jerusalem, many Jews put their faith in Christ swelling the ranks of the early church. This did not go down well with the Pharisees and scribes, so they seized James and took him to the top of the temple where they threatened to throw him down if he did not declare that Jesus was not the Messiah. When James cried out that Jesus was the Son of God, they cast him down. James didn’t die straight away, so they began to stone him. James died on his knees praying for those who were killing him. His last words were, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”

Now who does that remind you of?

I have heard it said that a head injury will turn a decent man into a profane man. There is something about pain which shatters religious masks revealing our true character. So what is it that moves a man to pray for his enemies even as they are stoning him to death? Is it not the supernatural grace of God? Don’t tell me that James didn’t “get it” when it comes to grace, or that his letter is misleading. Read James through the finished work of the cross and you can’t help but see Jesus. now i put in this work of looking all this up to help you so dont act like i dont care about you if i didnt care i would not have botherd to do this ok :) i love you as a brother Jesus loves you God loves you more then you can know so let me know after you read this how you feel and if i can help you more i will try my best God bless you always

I Agree that james did that, IM just saying he did that becasue of delusion of god he had created in his mind. Others told him what god was like and so he wasted his life having no fun following "god" and then he died and thats it. dead, gone, wasted. Why should I chance wasting my entire life folloing a diety that has very strict rules, without considering that he may be fictional?

SO far no one has convinced me, or given any evidence other than bible quotes..... right now Living for myself, I am having far more fun. And the temptations arnt problems any more, there just human needs. However there is Nothing inside me, no hope. and I can feel it.

But since theres no evidence for hope, I shouldent have any. I would be doing myself a disurvice, to lie to myself about an after life or God.

Originally posted by Pyshragrore:

No matter what happens during the course of time and space. God will ALWAYS be glorified in all kinds of ways.

You're going through a period in your life similar to mine, I keep thinking that I'm not cut out for the trials and tribulations that God has put before me, and I'm compelled to sin. Unlike you, I can make sure that a sin can stay dead rather than offer my body to it.

Other than the first sentance, I have no arguement that God exists. The Bible doesn't have an argument, so why should we? Because the Bible says nothing based on the argument of existance of God (except Psalm 53:1) which means that it would be foolish to think that God couldn't exist.

I'm not quite sure how else I could help you, but if you want to friend me and discuss, that choice is in your hands.

May the Lord be with you.

Sure perhaps the univers has a creater, but why would he leave us in the dark about his exsistence? why would he allow so many religions? why would he even care about us? what if where just his lab rats? his Pets. his expiriment. his enturtainment? ever thought of that? why else would he make creatures he knew in advance would betray him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51B8MzcxOX0

phycologist turning an athiest into a christian using mind tricks.

Originally posted by Thresh:

well D loaded i wish you the best and just trying to help God bless and you are in my prayers :)

Thank you that means a lot. Your one of the few who still care.

Originally posted by Thresh:

Originally posted by D_loaded:

SO far no one has convinced me, or given any evidence other than bible quotes..... right now Living for myself, I am having far more fun. And the temptations arnt problems any more, there just human needs. However there is Nothing inside me, no hope. and I can feel it.

But since theres no evidence for hope, I shouldent have any. I would be doing myself a disurvice, to lie to myself about an after life or God.

Oh and by the way what you say here Well ofc when you live for yourself you feel like your having so much fun and not having a promb with Temptations the Devil has no reason to fight you when your living how he wants. He has you when your like that and has no reason to put up a fight only when you try living for God will he fight you. and dont ever forget the best Trick the devil pulled on the World is for people to not think hes Real the Devil does not come to you as you would think when your living for yourself. hes going to pretend to be your Best Friend and tell you yeh nothing is wrong with how you are living keep it up because he has you at that point. its when you try going ag him then he will fight you like crazy but never forget Jesus beat Sin and the Devil When his blood was Shed on the Cross the Devil lost so those who are with Jesus the Devil has no power over sure he will still try to Tempt you to get you to say nahh this life is Boring and dumb but when you are Saved you will be Amazed how better and Peacefull you feel and you may think God is mad at you for sinning but hes not yes it makes him sad and Hurts him when we sin but that does not stop him from Loving us. His Grace is More Awsome more Powerful then any Sin we can Commit sure as Humans we feel like ok i keep on sinning i keep on Messing up theres no way god will forgive me right? theres no way he would ever love me right? WRONG!!!! WHY DO YOU THINK HE PUT JESUS ON EARTH TO SUFFER AND TO DIE FOR ME YOU AND EVERYONE!!! tell me who in this world would take there Son and have him die like Jesus did for other people?? you tell me ? that should show you how much God loves us. For God so Loved the World he gave his Only Begotten Son That Whoever Believeth on him Shall not Perish But have Ever Lasting Life. and here is somthing to think on We do not Desv Gods Love and Grace nothing we can do will ever be enough to Earn it because of how Sinfull Mankind is Yet!! thats How much God loves us that even though we Dont Desv it He Gave us Jesus had him Die on the Cross and Raised him back from the dead on the 3rd Day. Jesus Shed his blood for you to save you. All he ask is that you Trust and Love him as he Loves you soooooo much. His Blood was Shed for you never forget that he Died for You he Came back for you. now i ask you would you do me a Favor would you Pray and Ask Jesus to Come into your heart ? if so just pray this simple Prayer and mean it just say......Dear God i know that i am a Sinner i am Sorry for my Sin Forgive me I Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ Your Son Died on Calvarys Cross for my Sins and that you Raised Him from the Grave I want to Invite Christ into my Heart and Live for him As My Lord and Savior from this Day Forward In Jesus Name Amen.

Ive prayed like that thousands of times, Ive been raised a christian. but i was corruprted by a bad crowd my freashmen year in highschool. Im now addicted to Pornography, been that way for about 2 years now, ive been trying hard lately to stop. I pray for god to help me, and sometimes i think he does... But its never enought, im never good enough to break it. with his help, i still fail. Now im just sick and fed up of figthing sin, I dont even get why is has to be considerd wrong. I need god and i want god, but when I look, I only see a hard path outlined in an old book, With a Shrinking group of followers who dont have much of an arguement.... Thank you for praying for me. And I will pray as you have Written.

Originally posted by Pyshragrore:

I also just read that you're struggling with porn. Honestly, lust makes me feel empty inside. How do you combat it? Well, we know you ask the Lord for help, but you say it is fun to live for yourself?

Do you plan sin? Do you think to yourself "I'm going to do this...WAIT NO THAT'S BAD" and yet you do that bad thing anyway? Thats because you may be sinning by choice and not just falling into it. We all fall into sin because of our dirty, sinner nature. But do you fall into sin or dive into it?


Deuteronomy 23:10 says something about emissions of your seed or urine, either bed wetting or wet dreams here.

10 ¶ If there be among you any man, that is not clean by
reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall
he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the
camp:
11 But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash
himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall
come into the camp again.

So while it was unclean, it wasn't sinful to have wet dreams . If you do have wet dreams though, you may have to watch out for sinful lustful thoughts in your head. These emissions can be caused by them.

You can go a long, long time without emission, prostate cancer is a highly spoken of worry when it comes to not having emissions, but you need not worry.

Back to my point in a nutshell. If you think you can get away with sin just because you think "This is bad", then you will have to rethink and repent. Other than that, I do know that it is very hard to combat these lusts. Don't fear, if you can set yourself onto actually combatting sin, God will help you. I haven't come to accuse you or offend you. I'll pray for you. It may be a message that seems overused, but God loves you. Don't get upset that the message is heard often, it's at the heart of grace.

May the Lord be with you.
Again, you will be in my prayers. :D:

It is a choice, and im mad at myself for making the wrong one every time. and at this point i dont even understand why it must be wrong i just know that it is seen that way.

Originally posted by Pyshragrore:

Originally posted by D_loaded:

Sure perhaps the univers has a creater, but why would he leave us in the dark about his exsistence? why would he allow so many religions? why would he even care about us? what if where just his lab rats? his Pets. his expiriment. his enturtainment? ever thought of that? why else would he make creatures he knew in advance would betray him?

I appreciate that you're asking to have the Bible quoted. Let me help you on this.


He left us in the dark because of what Romans 2 says.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that
seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together
become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not
one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues
they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

'no, not one'.

Ok, so nobody is good right? Therefore bad things happen to the just and the unjust. People can be redeemed, as you know, by our Lord Christ Jesus so that we can live under God's grace and live blameless and righteous lives, but we still suffer on Earth for our sins.

Are we God's entertainment? No. We are not his lab rats and nor are the wicked, this isn't an expiriment to see who is fit for the Kingdom of Heaven because nobody can get there alone. God is angry that he has to see such sin, and he certaintly doesn't like having a sinner die unsaved. Ezekiel 33:11 says:

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord G OD , I have no
pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn
from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways;
for why will ye die, O house of Israel?[/qoute]


Not to mention Psalm 79:5





About religions also, God hates sin so much that he had to leave Earth. Sin rules this planet sadly, so expect false religions to come and go. But fear not, because Christ has spoked on that subject in Mark 13.



Keep at your faith, I will pray for your as well. Keep going and God will show you the answer.

Why did he make it so hard to be saved? Either he is god and has compleate and absolute power, and choose to make it hard. OR he is just saying hes god and cant do anything about it being really hard.

Originally posted by Thresh:

wanted to share a video with you :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEkDsxRe_EQ

This paster talks to me as if im a kinderguardener, YES i know its by faith. the question is WHAT creates faith?

Originally posted by Thresh:

no hes not talking to you like that hes just showing and What creates Faith God!! Faith is a gift from god. You are not called to grow your faith

Despite what you may have been taught – faith is not something you are required to grow. In fact, it’s something you are only required to have.

Faith was never yours to begin with, it's always been a gift from God. It’s something that He has given you and desires for you to hold on to. Hebrews 12v2

IT i havent held on, and infact let go of it then How do i get it back? if i constantly hear in my head: "why are you wasting your time with this" and "God isnt real" Does that mean i have no faith? Arent works Proof of faith?

Well I dont know if this will sway you, but God knew everything that would happen from the beginning, he knew we would fall, he knew Jesus would have to die for us and he knew lucifer would betray him. The reason God let these things happen is that he could make an example out of these actions, he would be the one to save the day and perform miraculous things that would give all the proof that would lead people to believe he was God. How can you deny a God who you know created this world with intelligent design, with no acts of randomness whatsoever. He also knows you are being put through this trial. Dont let satan put you where you are now. You know how low lucifer is? Even though he betrayed God, God still is king and satan has to ask permission to test you, which is what is happening this very moment. He's watching you fail, so he can go and tell God, "Look, look what your "servant" is doing!" He's trying to bring you down with all that he can, and he does it to everyone. Did you also know that Satan was the angel of music. Music has the root muse, which means, " to think or say (something) in a thoughtful way," he has formulated these temptations thoughfully so that when you hear them in your mind, you have no choice but to consider this and it sounds great in your mind, to your flesh, but it's not, sin is a cancer. Please take this into heart and pray, dont let satan fool you into thinking what your're doing it good, man, please pray.

I’m going to answer your questions from the top to the bottom to make things easier to understand. To answer your first question, there is a saying. “Faith Without Works Is Dead.” This is a passage from James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

To answer your second question... (IF God exists, why would he create all these things that we enjoy but should not have, or fantasize about? Such as Sex and violence?)

God created us perfect but it was our choice to fall. One might say, we were tempted by the Devil in the beginning, but we chose to sin. About fantasizing over sex and violence, we should not fantasize over them. Violence is an act that came from sin. Violence is an act that harms or kills people. In war, it’s one’s duty but we shouldn’t fantasize doing it. Playing war games and watching warlike movies are fine, but in moderation. I haven’t really thought about playing games like CoD a sin...hmm. If you just go along playing it to have a good time with your friends I see nothing wrong with it but if you enjoy the satisfaction of killing...that’s another whole new level. “Sex in itself is a beautiful thing” (I haven’t done it myself but just going off another quote) but why is it a sin? Sex isn’t, lust is. Having sex before marriage is a sin. Too much sexual activity even after marriage is a sin; why? Because that is another form of lust. Sex is to bring forth children not to appease our sexual desire. Yes we as humans can enjoy doing it while bringing up children but it shouldn’t be an everyday part of our life. While I am at this conversation abortion is killing a human child no matter how small and being gay is also a sin. Yes we can turn away from that through God’s mercy but if we continue it, it will lead us to Hell. And I am going to make one thing clear that many people have an issue about. One is not born Gay. It is a choice. And it is a sin because…”drum rolls” Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Near the beginning I did give the answer you expected me to give because it is the right one to give. Your argument is plausible. It does make sense. But you missed something.

But if he's GOD then he DETERMINES right and wrong, meaning he could do whatever he wants to his creations at any time and it would become morally right because he did it. meaning he could have simply deleted lucifer before he existed with the knowledge that if he existed he would eventually betray god and mess up humanity. Therefore the entire concept of good and evil is just built into the human race as a survival mechanism because humans survive better in nature in a group, adding religion to the mix both lessons the fear of death (encouraging people to work harder with the promise of eternal life) and makes a more stable society by telling people they are damned if they murder or steal.

This is where predestination comes into play. Yes, God created this world perfect knowing what we would do. In a sense, we don’t have free will because he has already “foreordained whatsoever comes to pass.” He could just delete Satan because He is God but what he wants is He wants to create a world where people praise Him and to show His glory and make the ultimate sacrifice. In reality it all boils down to His people and not His people. The sheep and the rams. He does not want us to fear death but to fear Him. He wants to show us His love even when we continually fail to love Him back. I once was in a time where I heavily doubted God but I saw something. God let me go away from Him so that I would see the world for what it really is. To see the sin in it. To be so disgusted by it to come running back not to just be saved but to want to love Him, the prime example of purity and holiness. If there was no Hell, we should hate sinning and would want to obey Him. That is the goal we are striving to get. Can we do this? No. We are to fallen to do it. So how are we to love Him and obey Him? Through His mercy.

When you say

I have faith in the chair i'm sitting in, but only because I can see it and feel it. My theory is that your faith in god is so strong your brain is warped from when you were a child to believe in God that your brain actually goes out and finds stuff to show you as evidence of God, stuff that ordinary people would blow off as normal. I've experienced this myself. good things i thanked God for, bad things I blamed satan for. But when my levels of faith drop to near nothingness (like they are now) I notice that the frequency and ratio of good things and bad things has stayed exactly the same! thereby proving at least to myself, that God had no part in any of those good things. when i am out of the faith I feel myself being called back, when i'm in the faith i feel myself being compelled to sin. its all just in my head. Faith is only something you can place in proof. Please Defeat my argument, I would love for there to be a God.

Faith is no matter of proof although we have plenty. Go outside and look at all you see. Could all that really happen out of random chance or is there an almighty being that could have created it? A prime example of God is the Grand Canyon. Now you might be like, “Whaaaat?” But look at all its layers all it rock formations. A large body of water created that. Flala the flood. Or like has anyone ever seen an animal evolve? Even just the slightest amount? Nope. One thing that baffles Evolution is sexual reproduction because it goes against their methods. For one to evolve, it should take billions/millions of years.

If their are any other questions that you have or you feel like something isn’t explained properly or I missed one of your questions, say so. I’m here to help and I want to help. :)


Here are a couple of good sermons that I would encourage you to at least listen to a few of em.

Can You Really Be Joyous When God Sends You Trials
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1228141217271
Fearless Faith
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714112634
Though He Slay Me
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=97141936318
God's Good and Perfect Will
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=817141159140
What Faith Looks Like
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714111443
The Peril of Unbelief
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714111443
How Do I Know the Bible to Be the Word of God
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=518141216545
Don't Despise God's Chastening
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=4131419419
Christ's Love Conquers All
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=2914115144
Inseparable from Christ's Love
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=22141156567


Revan

Originally posted by Revan:

I’m going to answer your questions from the top to the bottom to make things easier to understand. To answer your first question, there is a saying. “Faith Without Works Is Dead.” This is a passage from James 2:14-26
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

To answer your second question... (IF God exists, why would he create all these things that we enjoy but should not have, or fantasize about? Such as Sex and violence?)

God created us perfect but it was our choice to fall. One might say, we were tempted by the Devil in the beginning, but we chose to sin. About fantasizing over sex and violence, we should not fantasize over them. Violence is an act that came from sin. Violence is an act that harms or kills people. In war, it’s one’s duty but we shouldn’t fantasize doing it. Playing war games and watching warlike movies are fine, but in moderation. I haven’t really thought about playing games like CoD a sin...hmm. If you just go along playing it to have a good time with your friends I see nothing wrong with it but if you enjoy the satisfaction of killing...that’s another whole new level. “Sex in itself is a beautiful thing” (I haven’t done it myself but just going off another quote) but why is it a sin? Sex isn’t, lust is. Having sex before marriage is a sin. Too much sexual activity even after marriage is a sin; why? Because that is another form of lust. Sex is to bring forth children not to appease our sexual desire. Yes we as humans can enjoy doing it while bringing up children but it shouldn’t be an everyday part of our life. While I am at this conversation abortion is killing a human child no matter how small and being gay is also a sin. Yes we can turn away from that through God’s mercy but if we continue it, it will lead us to Hell. And I am going to make one thing clear that many people have an issue about. One is not born Gay. It is a choice. And it is a sin because…”drum rolls” Leviticus 20:13
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Near the beginning I did give the answer you expected me to give because it is the right one to give. Your argument is plausible. It does make sense. But you missed something.

But if he's GOD then he DETERMINES right and wrong, meaning he could do whatever he wants to his creations at any time and it would become morally right because he did it. meaning he could have simply deleted lucifer before he existed with the knowledge that if he existed he would eventually betray god and mess up humanity. Therefore the entire concept of good and evil is just built into the human race as a survival mechanism because humans survive better in nature in a group, adding religion to the mix both lessons the fear of death (encouraging people to work harder with the promise of eternal life) and makes a more stable society by telling people they are damned if they murder or steal.

This is where predestination comes into play. Yes, God created this world perfect knowing what we would do. In a sense, we don’t have free will because he has already “foreordained whatsoever comes to pass.” He could just delete Satan because He is God but what he wants is He wants to create a world where people praise Him and to show His glory and make the ultimate sacrifice. In reality it all boils down to His people and not His people. The sheep and the rams. He does not want us to fear death but to fear Him. He wants to show us His love even when we continually fail to love Him back. I once was in a time where I heavily doubted God but I saw something. God let me go away from Him so that I would see the world for what it really is. To see the sin in it. To be so disgusted by it to come running back not to just be saved but to want to love Him, the prime example of purity and holiness. If there was no Hell, we should hate sinning and would want to obey Him. That is the goal we are striving to get. Can we do this? No. We are to fallen to do it. So how are we to love Him and obey Him? Through His mercy.

When you say

I have faith in the chair i'm sitting in, but only because I can see it and feel it. My theory is that your faith in god is so strong your brain is warped from when you were a child to believe in God that your brain actually goes out and finds stuff to show you as evidence of God, stuff that ordinary people would blow off as normal. I've experienced this myself. good things i thanked God for, bad things I blamed satan for. But when my levels of faith drop to near nothingness (like they are now) I notice that the frequency and ratio of good things and bad things has stayed exactly the same! thereby proving at least to myself, that God had no part in any of those good things. when i am out of the faith I feel myself being called back, when i'm in the faith i feel myself being compelled to sin. its all just in my head. Faith is only something you can place in proof. Please Defeat my argument, I would love for there to be a God.

Faith is no matter of proof although we have plenty. Go outside and look at all you see. Could all that really happen out of random chance or is there an almighty being that could have created it? A prime example of God is the Grand Canyon. Now you might be like, “Whaaaat?” But look at all its layers all it rock formations. A large body of water created that. Flala the flood. Or like has anyone ever seen an animal evolve? Even just the slightest amount? Nope. One thing that baffles Evolution is sexual reproduction because it goes against their methods. For one to evolve, it should take billions/millions of years.

If their are any other questions that you have or you feel like something isn’t explained properly or I missed one of your questions, say so. I’m here to help and I want to help. :)


Here are a couple of good sermons that I would encourage you to at least listen to a few of em.

Can You Really Be Joyous When God Sends You Trials
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1228141217271
Fearless Faith
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714112634
Though He Slay Me
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=97141936318
God's Good and Perfect Will
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=817141159140
What Faith Looks Like
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714111443
The Peril of Unbelief
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=101714111443
How Do I Know the Bible to Be the Word of God
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=518141216545
Don't Despise God's Chastening
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=4131419419
Christ's Love Conquers All
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=2914115144
Inseparable from Christ's Love
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=22141156567


Revan

WHy did he make it so difficult. Why does he give satan permission to make it difficult? why do we even exsits? "He wants to create a world where people praise Him and to show His glory and make the ultimate sacrifice. In reality it all boils down to His people and not His people. The sheep and the rams. He does not want us to fear death but to fear Him." SO he wants to play hero and get worshiped? so hes created people, then put them in a difficult place, so he can save them and feel good about himself? Becasue thats basicly what you just said there.