Are criminals aware that negotiators are trying to trick them?

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Xero_Daxter 10 hours ago

I’m no psychologist but do criminals know that negotiators are there to trick them and not actually there to give them a way to escape? Unless you’re a dumb criminal you should know that they’re never gonna give you a helicopter to escape from.

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Originally posted by De Hollandse Ezel:

Originally posted by Corvus XIII:
-going to add on the 'why don't cops lie'

It will compromise future negotiations in other situations.

If you take hostage in Russia, chances are you and your hostage is going to get shot by the Russian Forces.
Or get military grade knock out gas used and that can kill the hostages too.

Russian negotiations, Iran long ago took some Russian Diplomats hostages.
Russia found out who the kidnappers were and sent them the fingers of their families.
Result : Only a fool would kidnap a Russian diplomat.

If the UK had a regular doctrine of 'getting everybody out safely' then the hostage takers know they can rely on that and not end up making examples out of the hostages.

It is best to have a foundational doctrine to work from ie a culture.

I would be for a two prong situation.

mr kidnapper.. you have 2 choices...
you leave here in a bodybag or in handcuffs.. there will be no getting away.
treaten the hostages all you want just know if you harm as much as one of them you will be dead.
we will bomb the building you and every hostage if we have to make sure you are

I will also not bring you food or items or all that nonsence..
for if you prefer the handcuffs.. but not like the idea of 50 years in jail which i totally can understand...
than we can negociate how many years would be acceptable for you to peacefull surrender.
know that once a single hostage is hurt this deal is off the table..
know also while we making this deal as long as you and I are now tallking you will not have to fear somebody is invading the building or taking a shot at you.

this is the one chance you get.. I suggest you take it.. so 50 years I start the bidding.. whats your counteroffer?

basicly that would be how I would order my nations police to play it.

sure it may lead to some criminals get away with perhaps a bit to light a sentence.. and may intise more to grab a hostage in the hope it gets them a plea deal.. which they would not get if just arrested normally..
but in the large scale it would mean.. more would be willing to just give up without harming people..

sending fingers of family.. thats barbaric and an example why russia is such a crap state.. you don't fight terrorists by becoming one...

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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments

Corvus XIII 10 hours ago

If the negotiators are there then the person / gang are probably about to get killed off.

They need to have some kind of release valve.

The 'chance' there is a way out with something is a good enough draw for them to go with it.

Dutchgamer1982 10 hours ago

Correct negociation is : you are going to arrest me anyway.. But i like a signed document that my sentence is mild and that I am pardoned for anything more than attempted robbery..

Aka you negociate a settlement to reduce punishment.
Not to get away from one.

Last edited by Dutchgamer1982; 10 hours ago

EndangeredPootisBird 10 hours ago

They want criminals to help themselves by admitting to any crime(s) they've comitted and thus potentially reducing their sentence.

Last edited by EndangeredPootisBird; 10 hours ago

Xero_Daxter 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:
Correct negociation is : you are going to arresr me anyway.. But i like a signed document that my sentence is mild and that I am pardoned for anything more than attempted robbery..

Aka you negociate a settlement to reduce punishment.
Not to get away from one.

I’m mostly talking about crime that involve hostages. Trying to use them as leverage to get away. Haha. But at the end of the day they’re not gonna give you what you want.

Dutchgamer1982 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:
Correct negociation is : you are going to arresr me anyway.. But i like a signed document that my sentence is mild and that I am pardoned for anything more than attempted robbery..

Aka you negociate a settlement to reduce punishment.
Not to get away from one.
I’m mostly talking about crime that involve hostages. Trying to use them as leverage to get away. Haha. But at the end of the day they’re not gonna give you what you want.

Still can happen.. Say You did a bank heist.. But it went bust... Flight was prevented some of you got shot one of those shot back and killed a cop... Some got away..
You are bunkered up inside.

You negociate you get only tried for the robbery not the copkilling nor the hostage taking nor resiting arrest.

You will not make it out but can can negociate 30 years down to 8 or 12 years..

Which might just be worth taking hostages over they not know you are bluffing and will never kill one..

Last edited by Dutchgamer1982; 10 hours ago

Xero_Daxter 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:
Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
I’m mostly talking about crime that involve hostages. Trying to use them as leverage to get away. Haha. But at the end of the day they’re not gonna give you what you want.

Still can happen.. Say You did a bank heist.. But it went bust... Flight was prevented some of you got shot one of those shot back and killed a cop... Some got away..
You are bunkered up inside.

You negociate you get only tried for the robbery not the copkilling nor the hostage taking nor resiting arrest.

You will not make it out but can can negociate 30 years down to 8 or 12 years..

What’s stopping them from lying though? Police are allowed to lie.

De Hollandse Ezel 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:

Still can happen.. Say You did a bank heist.. But it went bust... Flight was prevented some of you got shot one of those shot back and killed a cop... Some got away..
You are bunkered up inside.

You negociate you get only tried for the robbery not the copkilling nor the hostage taking nor resiting arrest.

You will not make it out but can can negociate 30 years down to 8 or 12 years..
What’s stopping them from lying though? Police are allowed to lie.

not in my nation.. and thats why you demand a signed document aka demand anything you agree on paper signed by a judge to make it lawfull and binding. and I will demand my lawyer to see and confirm the document is correct.

hand that reduced sentence document and the hostages are let loose... and you surrender..

Last edited by De Hollandse Ezel; 10 hours ago

Xero_Daxter 10 hours ago

Originally posted by De Hollandse Ezel:
Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
What’s stopping them from lying though? Police are allowed to lie.

not in my nation.. and thats why you demand a signed document aka demand anything you agree on paper signed by a judge to make it lawfull and binding.

hand that reduced sentence document and the hostages are let loose... and you surrender..

Hmm… interesting. In the States if the police has a chance to take you out then they will.

admiral1018 10 hours ago

If the criminal is at the point where they are speaking with a negotiator and surrounded by law enforcement, obviously the heist or whatever was planned did not go accordingly. At that point, the criminal's options are usually life in prison or getting shot to death by LEO, so the negotiation is for any outcome better than those.

Say what you want, but most people, including criminals, become much more open to dialogue when there is a very real chance their life will be over before the end of the day.

Xero_Daxter 10 hours ago

Originally posted by admiral1018:
If the criminal is at the point where they are speaking with a negotiator and surrounded by law enforcement, obviously the heist or whatever was planned did not go accordingly. At that point, the criminal's options are usually life in prison or getting shot to death by LEO, so the negotiation is for any outcome better than those.

Say what you want, but most people, including criminals, become much more open to dialogue when there is a very real chance their life will be over before the end of the day.

I kinda get where you’re coming from since they have nothing else to lose. At that point they’re just delaying the inevitable.

Edit: What about criminals that use people as human shields so they won’t be riddled with bullets?

Last edited by Xero_Daxter; 10 hours ago

#10

De Hollandse Ezel 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
Originally posted by De Hollandse Ezel:

not in my nation.. and thats why you demand a signed document aka demand anything you agree on paper signed by a judge to make it lawfull and binding.

hand that reduced sentence document and the hostages are let loose... and you surrender..
Hmm… interesting. In the States if the police has a chance to take you out then they will.

that would be excessive force here.. unless I specifcly am treatening the hostages...
(which is not.. I have them locked up.. and will kill them if you attemt entering
it needs to be a much more direct danger...

if I point a gun at you and you have no other way to defend than killing me you may but police must always target hand or legg aka non lethal shot when possible.. and if I am not directly treatening (which is more than jus SAYING I gonna kill them or even carring a gun.... I must be actively pointing it at a head... than even ANY shooting would be excessive force..

and if they lie they give me sentence deduction but don't.. that would be an instant misstrial and got the lying cop and any supervisor who knew f it permanenbtly fired...

cops may attempt to talk yourself in a corner by all means... they can ask tricky questions.. like oh you touched her there.. thats close to that other part... could it not be that you accedently touched that other criminal part tooo?
ofcourse thatrs tricky for every theorectlcy COULD .. so flat out denial is suspicious... but if you say YES it could.. that can be seen as a partial admittance of guilt...

they are allowed to play it like that.. they can NOT legally admit they have evidence they have not
that too is case for a mistrial you easely win.

#11

Goldias 10 hours ago

Well, they have hostages to exploit so maybe they thought that will force the police to comply.

Unfortunately for them, cops are not going to prioritize hostages.

#12

Boblin the Goblin 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Dutchgamer1982:
Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
I’m mostly talking about crime that involve hostages. Trying to use them as leverage to get away. Haha. But at the end of the day they’re not gonna give you what you want.

Still can happen.. Say You did a bank heist.. But it went bust... Flight was prevented some of you got shot one of those shot back and killed a cop... Some got away..
You are bunkered up inside.

You negociate you get only tried for the robbery not the copkilling nor the hostage taking nor resiting arrest.

You will not make it out but can can negociate 30 years down to 8 or 12 years..

Which might just be worth taking hostages over they not know you are bluffing and will never kill one..

Negotiation isn't legally binding. They also wouldn't negotiate getting rid of murder.

The negotiator is only trying to prevent you from being killed or killing people.

#13

DoomsDay 10 hours ago

Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
I’m no psychologist but do criminals know that negotiators are there to trick them and not actually there to give them a way to escape? Unless you’re a dumb criminal you should know that they’re never gonna give you a helicopter to escape from.

that's true, those that demand escape vehicle from police by holding hostage never get it.

when the situation escalate into that, police will send in force to rescue hostage than to send escape vehicle.

I dont know why is that, maybe police cant exactly know whether the hostage is playing both sides.

#14

Boblin the Goblin 10 hours ago

Originally posted by De Hollandse Ezel:
Originally posted by Xero_Daxter:
What’s stopping them from lying though? Police are allowed to lie.

not in my nation.. and thats why you demand a signed document aka demand anything you agree on paper signed by a judge to make it lawfull and binding. and I will demand my lawyer to see and confirm the document is correct.

hand that reduced sentence document and the hostages are let loose... and you surrender..

If a judge signs that document, they need to be removed.

#15

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Date Posted: 30 Oct @ 9:04am

Posts: 29

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