Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

I'm going to keep this simple, clear and to the point.

Two hours is not long enough anymore to decide whether a game is in a playable state and/or if a game meets the developers advertised standards.

Developers are fully aware of this two hour grace period and do everything in their power to make sure your first two hours of progression in their game are smooth, bug free, and promised features are teased or hidden if not actually in the game.

This means that after two hours of play the game can fall into hard/soft locks, bugs, or discovering that things you were promised that would be in a game are not there at all.

Developers are allowed to quietly remove advertised features from the store page hours before release ( so if you preordered you are out of luck )

The Refund Policy needs to be re-evaluated or we will continue to be flooded with dishonest practices by developers.

Developers aren't allowed to falsely advertise their game, because that's a violation of consumer and advertising laws pretty much everywhere. If they are doing this, report them on their store page.

2 hours is plenty of time, but Steam will still do discretionary refunds beyond this time, with a manual ticket. No guarantees on that.

You can also use the law in your country to your advantage too, if you feel it's being violated.

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

Developers are fully aware of this two hour grace period and do everything in their power to make sure your first two hours of progression in their game are smooth, bug free, and promised features are teased or hidden if not actually in the game.

So, what you are trying to say is that they are exploiting the system?. I do not think so.

The refund policy is perfectly fine.

Автор сообщения: ✨Saint✨

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

Developers are fully aware of this two hour grace period and do everything in their power to make sure your first two hours of progression in their game are smooth, bug free, and promised features are teased or hidden if not actually in the game.

So, what you are trying to say is that they are exploiting the system?. I do not think so.

The refund policy is perfectly fine.

:saint:

oh everything is all well then because *you* don't think so.

ah well then there it is everyone.

Two hours is more than enough time for what its intended for.

Once upon a time it was "if you opened it, its yours" and even if it wasnt opened all you were getting is store credit.

Youre living in the time of privilege and still complaining.

At least he speaks for himself and does not to speak for all gamers. And yes, 2 hours are enough to see if the game runs.

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

Автор сообщения: ✨Saint✨

So, what you are trying to say is that they are exploiting the system?. I do not think so.

The refund policy is perfectly fine.

oh everything is all well then because *you* don't think so.

ah well then there it is everyone.

Nah, just my opinion. In fact, there is just a very small percentage of people complaining about it, mostly to create drama I guess, or whatever that reason may be.

Автор сообщения: ✨Saint✨

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

oh everything is all well then because *you* don't think so.

ah well then there it is everyone.

Nah, just my opinion. In fact, there is just a very small percentage of people complaing about it, mostly to create drama I guess, or whatever that reason may be.

:saint:

Yeah and what logical or moral reason do you have to say that policies made to defend the consumer should not ever be re-evaluated as times change?

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

Автор сообщения: ✨Saint✨

Nah, just my opinion. In fact, there is just a very small percentage of people complaing about it, mostly to create drama I guess, or whatever that reason may be.

Yeah and what logical or moral reason do you have to say that policies made to defend the consumer should not be ever be re-evaluated as times change?

I never said that.

Автор сообщения: ✨Saint✨

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

Yeah and what logical or moral reason do you have to say that policies made to defend the consumer should not be ever be re-evaluated as times change?

I never said that.

:saint:

But you are disagreeing with me, saying nothing should be evaluated in the refund policy, that it's fool proof and couldn't possibly be taken advantage of. That's the implication you are making here.

The refund system is to see if a game runs on your system.

It is not and never has been a satisfaction guarantee system.

While not liking a game is a valid reason to refund, the refund system is NOT to be used to demo the game.

Research the game beforehand and make an informed purchase.

Автор сообщения: ˢʰᵉᶦᵏᵒ (Sgт.Ήєηηєѕѕу)

I'm going to keep this simple, clear and to the point.

Two hours is not long enough anymore to decide whether a game is in a playable state and/or if a game meets the developers advertised standards.

Developers are fully aware of this two hour grace period and do everything in their power to make sure your first two hours of progression in their game are smooth, bug free, and promised features are teased or hidden if not actually in the game.

This means that after two hours of play the game can fall into hard/soft locks, bugs, or discovering that things you were promised that would be in a game are not there at all.

Developers are allowed to quietly remove advertised features from the store page hours before release ( so if you preordered you are out of luck )

The Refund Policy needs to be re-evaluated or we will continue to be flooded with dishonest practices by developers.

You can't expect the refund policy or Valve to fully indemnify you in the case of games turning out to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. They can't take on that risk, and certainly could not do so without meaningfully defending against abuse cases.

In my experience I can sniff out games like this pretty well by adjusting my play to focus on those two hours: If I am evaluating a game I expect is a likely candidate for a refund, I'm going to blitz those two hours and try to reach the pain points I need to have tested to verify if the purchase is correct for me. I have not seen a game dev routinely try to prevent me from doing so, and if there IS, that's a perfectly good reason to just alt-F4 at minute 121 and then put in for the refund and you are always justified to do so.

If you need to evaluate games beyond that, if you're not able to pool knowledge with others and see if the games are performing 2 hour shell games to hide the crap, which SHOULD show up in a lot of reviews, you may need to seek methods of evaluating games without buying them beyond the Steam refund policy. It would be nice if Valve could but there are limits to what can be done.

Автор сообщения: AmsterdamHeavy

Two hours is more than enough time for what its intended for.

Once upon a time it was "if you opened it, its yours" and even if it wasnt opened all you were getting is store credit.

Youre living in the time of privilege and still complaining.

Yes but in that era it involved irrevocable physical products. Times have changed. There is no sense in clinging to those old frameworks because the idea of the customer receiving some consideration is abhorrent to you for some strange reason.

If you've spent one hour and the game hasn't "worked" yet, it's probably time to send it back.

If you encounter a bug... Let the developers know so they can fix it? It's not like they put the bug in on purpose.

Day 1 hype purchasing strikes again.