Is Steam killing trading with too much security?

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Dom 6 hours ago

You know the good old saying some people say: if you give up your liberties for security, you don't deserve either.

Valve has recently introduced more trading restrictions on top of the existing ones, including trade protection, which means that any items you have received via trading will be in a static state (cannot be modified or traded away) for up to 7 days. The program is currently part of CS2 but is proposed to be rolled out for other games with trading as well.

While we all (hopefully) agree that scamming is a problem, there should be serious discussions about the extent to which Steam should go to prevent them and how many restrictions are proportionate to secure the environment without restricting user freedom way too much. Because it's always possible to add more restrictions on top of what is already out there but we should also acknowledge that each added restriction will inevitably hurt user experience and legitimate users engaging with the platform.

Like it or hate it, trading is a legitimate hobby for thousands of people playing these games. There are lots of servers and websites completely dedicated to trading.

There are massive communities around trading. A lot of people are also quick-buying or quick-selling items when they see good (and time-limited) opportunities to do so, and these types of restrictions, in my view, essentially kill such activities. That's not ideal and goes too far.

Valve introduced trading and economy into their games as this new exciting feature to drive user engagement but increasingly, they've been restricting these very core features. However, I think gaming inventories are not bank accounts, and shouldn't have similar security mechanisms. There should also be some expectation that the user will do what is necessary to secure their accounts, and thus, their inventories.

Do you agree? Is Valve going too far with this?
Is Steam killing trading with too much security?

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Showing 1-15 of 38 comments

641989 5 hours ago

I've gotten to the point where I no longer hold Valve in high esteem. I think they've forgotten what made them successful and I'm looking to move on from the platform.

Indeed, there are other options nowadays without the DRM.

Last edited by 641989; 5 hours ago

Chika Ogiue 5 hours ago

If it kills of third-party site trading, then it's working as intended.

Dom 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
If it kills of third-party site trading, then it's working as intended.

I don't get that view. Trading is fundamentally community activity (not Valve). So why would you want to destroy sites and platforms created by the community?

Boblin the Goblin 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Dom:
Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
If it kills of third-party site trading, then it's working as intended.
I don't get that view. Trading is fundamentally community activity (not Valve). So why would you want to destroy sites and platforms created by the community?

Valve has always been against 3rd party trading sites because they are rife with scams.

Valve doesn't want trading to be a type of commerce for users. It never has.

Dom 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Originally posted by Dom:
I don't get that view. Trading is fundamentally community activity (not Valve). So why would you want to destroy sites and platforms created by the community?
Valve has always been against 3rd party trading sites because they are rife with scams.

Valve doesn't want trading to be a type of commerce for users. It never has.

What an odd view. Trading is literally commerce. It's buying and selling.

If Valve was against commerce, there wouldn't be trading.

And without third-party trading sites, there are hardly any ways to properly advertise that you're interested in buying or selling a particular piece of item. Steam doesn't really offer those spaces.

Last edited by Dom; 5 hours ago

Boblin the Goblin 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Dom:
Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Valve has always been against 3rd party trading sites because they are rife with scams.

Valve doesn't want trading to be a type of commerce for users. It never has.
What an odd view. Trading is literally commerce. It's buying and selling.

If Valve was against commerce, there wouldn't be trading.

And without third-party trading sites, there are hardly any ways to properly advertise that you're interested in buying or selling a particular piece of item. Steam doesn't really offer those spaces.

Trading sites usually exchange real money for trades, not just wallet funds. That's what Valve is against.

That's the commerce. They even list using your account for commerce as against the ToS.

Dom 5 hours ago

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:
Originally posted by Dom:
What an odd view. Trading is literally commerce. It's buying and selling.

If Valve was against commerce, there wouldn't be trading.

And without third-party trading sites, there are hardly any ways to properly advertise that you're interested in buying or selling a particular piece of item. Steam doesn't really offer those spaces.
Trading sites usually exchange real money for trades, not just wallet funds. That's what Valve is against.

That's the commerce. They even list using your account for commerce as against the ToS.

I think you're mixing up trading sites and marketplaces. Trading sites are typically 'I'm interested in buying this TF2/CS hat/skin for this amount of keys" or "I'm selling X for Y amount of keys". Marketplaces are sites where real money is often involved.

So with TF2 for example you have a site like bptf which is a trading site, and then you have marketplacetf which is a marketplace site. They operate very differently.

Why should we actively kill sites people are using to trade digital items for other digital items? That to me seems like the kind of community engagement that introducing trading is supposed to create.

CATCH PHRASE 4 hours ago

It would kill them to allow Steam wallets in trades so that the lousier kiddos out there don't get run over by the occasional scammer and then slapped by Steam support saying that the alleged scammer did nothing wrong. I've seen that from too many people.

Tito Shivan 4 hours ago

Originally posted by CATCH PHRASE:
It would kill them to allow Steam wallets in trades so that the lousier kiddos out there don't get run over by the occasional scammer and then slapped by Steam support saying that the alleged scammer did nothing wrong. I've seen that from too many people.

If you could put Steam Wallet in the trade window scams would skyrocket.

robilar5500 4 hours ago

Traders are killing trading.

#10

Dom 4 hours ago

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:
Originally posted by CATCH PHRASE:
It would kill them to allow Steam wallets in trades so that the lousier kiddos out there don't get run over by the occasional scammer and then slapped by Steam support saying that the alleged scammer did nothing wrong. I've seen that from too many people.
If you could put Steam Wallet in the trade window scams would skyrocket.

Plus I think if Valve was on board with that idea, they would've implemented it already.

Community marketplace serves such purpose (trading for funds) and it already has a lot of security mechanisms implemented in it.

#11

Chika Ogiue 4 hours ago

Originally posted by Dom:
I don't get that view. Trading is fundamentally community activity (not Valve). So why would you want to destroy sites and platforms created by the community?

Because it has never been supported and the overwhelming majority of those sites are used to scam. They are the reason Valve have to introduce these measures in the first place. So if they finally manage to kill off third party-trading, then brilliant. It'll be a time to celebrate.

Originally posted by Dom:
If Valve was against commerce, there wouldn't be trading.

See, you think trading is only about making money. The kind of trading Valve want on their platform is the old schoolyard style trading where you trade the collectible you don't need with someone who needs it and has one you need. No money and no profit involved.

As for the market place, that, too, is only for wallet funds not for making real world bank. It's meant to be a closed system. The money stays on Steam.

Last edited by Chika Ogiue; 4 hours ago

#12

CATCH PHRASE 4 hours ago

Originally posted by Dom:
Originally posted by Tito Shivan:
If you could put Steam Wallet in the trade window scams would skyrocket.
Plus I think if Valve was on board with that idea, they would've implemented it already.

Community marketplace serves such purpose (trading for funds) and it already has a lot of security mechanisms implemented in it.

100% this.

But I do think the ability for repercussions of scams would make itself present. As it stands, scammers basically get defended by Steam support. I'm not saying people should feel safe making deals haphazardly, but again, I've had quite a few friends get run over, and because Valve refuses to moderate that particular avenue of trade, there's never a reasonable outcome.

#13

Papa Parker 3 hours ago

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
If it kills of third-party site trading, then it's working as intended.

i think you are right. i agree

#14

Dom 3 hours ago

Originally posted by Chika Ogiue:
Originally posted by Dom:
I don't get that view. Trading is fundamentally community activity (not Valve). So why would you want to destroy sites and platforms created by the community?

Because it has never been supported and the overwhelming majority of those sites are used to scam. They are the reason Valve have to introduce these measures in the first place. So if they finally manage to kill off third party-trading, then brilliant. It'll be a time to celebrate.

Originally posted by Dom:
If Valve was against commerce, there wouldn't be trading.

See, you think trading is only about making money. The kind of trading Valve want on their platform is the old schoolyard style trading where you trade the collectible you don't need with someone who needs it and has one you need. No money and no profit involved.

As for the market place, that, too, is only for wallet funds not for making real world bank. It's meant to be a closed system. The money stays on Steam.

I don't know how someone would come to the conclusion that after Valve introduces massive in-game economy, unlimited trading, and tradeable digital items that are up to thousands of dollars in value (by making them purposefully rare) that they're only in favour of some small-scale once-in-a-year schoolyard trading in very specific circumstances.

Maybe this is just me but... seems quite obvious it would lead to larger scenes.

Like what else would you possibly expect to happen?

If it is a problem now, it's a self-inflicted problem that they've themselves created throughout the past decade. Because many games with lootboxes don't allow you to trade the digital items on your account or there is extremely limited trading.

Last edited by Dom; 3 hours ago

#15

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Date Posted: 6 Sep @ 6:14am

Posts: 38

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