Australia is the problem? Do they hate women?

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D. Flame 15 Aug @ 12:03pm

Australia is the problem? Do they hate women?

Collective Shout is an extremist activist group from Australia, and they are the ones that got this whole censorship ball rolling. Now a lot of the fetish content they were pointing out really exists on this platform. The, "Help, I'm stuck, step brother," ♥♥♥♥ isn't my cup of tea, but it was legal and was available on here.

What I couldn't fathom, though, is they kept accusing steam of hosting illegal under-aged content, which simply was not true. Then it finally clicked for me in another thread:

Originally posted by D. Flame:
Originally posted by D. Flame:
Isn't a Australia the same country that made it illegal for an adult woman to take a picture of her own self if she has A cups because it is "a simulated kid"?

And conservatives and the like have been going after violent video games for decades. This whole situation gives them the means to finally succeed where they have failed so often before.

I found some mentions of it here:

https://msmagazine.com/2010/03/07/australias-war-on-small-breasts-2/
Since childhood, men, magazines and our mothers have ridiculed our relative lack of endowment, so maybe it was only a matter of time before whole governments made our bitty busts their business.

The first to do so: Australia, whose government censors are banning adult publications and films that feature women with small breasts in an effort to—get this—curb pedophilia. Now I’m no porn apologist, but I rather dislike having my body categorically likened to a child’s.

https://www.theregister.com/2010/01/28/australian_censors/
The result of this campaign is now visible in the decisions being made by the Australian Classification Board, which is beginning to apply RC (refused classification) categories to such material, as opposed to the previous X-rating. According to Fiona Patten, Convenor of the Australian Sex Party: "We are starting to see depictions of women in their late 20s being banned because they have an A cup size.

In Australia, they will literally outlaw women for having small breasts. It doesn't matter if the women are 25, 30, etc. It doesn't matter if that is their natural body shape or not. To Australians, a small breasted woman better get fake implants, or she is never going to be considered an adult.

These are the people that Mastercard, Paypal, Visa, and the PPs are allowing to lead them around by the nose. Not only is it an insult against freedom of speech and freedom of commerce. It is an insult against women's bodies as well.

EDIT - Why this is on topic and relevant to Steam Discussions:

1.) It is on topic because of the current censorship being applied to Steam as a result of the subject matter covered in this topic.

2.) It is on topic because payment processors are blacklisting/watchlisting Steam as a result of Australian groups like collective shout.

3.) it is on topic because it explores the thought processes of those Australian groups calling for Steam's censorship.

Last edited by D. Flame; 15 Aug @ 1:21pm

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Showing 1-15 of 44 comments

Truth 15 Aug @ 12:11pm

Originally posted by D. Flame:
In Australia, they will literally outlaw women for having small breasts. It doesn't matter if the women are 25, 30, etc. It doesn't matter if that is their natural body shape or not. To Australians, a small breasted woman better get fake implants, or she is never going to be considered an adult.

That is so completely misleading and poorly worded its not even funny, your own articles don't even have working links to back up that claim. They are banned if they appear to be under 18 from adult content, and while its a bit hard to quantify the logic behind it makes sense.

Many porn studios use women who look like children to make their videos on purpose and its not a surprise who their audience is. Women can have small breasts and still appear in adult content, its just with ALL factors involved they have to look like they are over 18 which isn't exactly unreasonable.

Unless you are trying to claim its ok to produce porn with people who look like children and sell it?

Last edited by Truth; 15 Aug @ 12:11pm

D. Flame 15 Aug @ 12:18pm

Originally posted by Truth:
Women can have small breasts and still appear in adult content, its just with ALL factors involved they have to look like they are over 18 which isn't exactly unreasonable.

And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? Who gets to judge whether a woman's natural body fits their subjective standards of "looking like an adult"?

Either a person is an adult or they are not.

Truth 15 Aug @ 12:29pm

Originally posted by D. Flame:
Originally posted by Truth:
Women can have small breasts and still appear in adult content, its just with ALL factors involved they have to look like they are over 18 which isn't exactly unreasonable.
And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? Who gets to judge whether a woman's natural body fits their subjective standards of "looking like an adult"?

Either a person is an adult or they are not.

You should try to not edit my quote where I already touched on that and the reasons why. Since you edited and removed the relevant part of my quotes i'll repeat it

Originally posted by Truth:
and while its a bit hard to quantify the logic behind it makes sense.

So again, do YOU support making Pornography using actors that look like children and then making that available to people? Who do you think is the market for that? Its nothing to do with their breast size and looks at the entire person, their clothing, their speech, etc.

Unless you think its ok for a porno to be made featuring a 4"5 female char with an A cup wearing a middle school uniform and taking place in a middle school featuring her going to classes and stuff just because she happens to be 18.......

Its nothing against hating A cups or women, its about wanting to not portray child porn and being able to use the excuse that she is over 18, so who cares if we made it look like she was a child for the video.

D. Flame 15 Aug @ 12:38pm

Originally posted by Truth:
Originally posted by D. Flame:
And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? Who gets to judge whether a woman's natural body fits their subjective standards of "looking like an adult"?

Either a person is an adult or they are not.

You should try to not edit my quote where I already touched on that and the reasons why.

I will continue to ignore all irrelevant information and choose to only focus on the truth.

Drako110 15 Aug @ 12:46pm

Originally posted by Truth:
Originally posted by D. Flame:
And who gets to make that arbitrary decision? Who gets to judge whether a woman's natural body fits their subjective standards of "looking like an adult"?

Either a person is an adult or they are not.

You should try to not edit my quote where I already touched on that and the reasons why. Since you edited and removed the relevant part of my quotes i'll repeat it

Originally posted by Truth:
and while its a bit hard to quantify the logic behind it makes sense.

So again, do YOU support making Pornography using actors that look like children and then making that available to people? Who do you think is the market for that? Its nothing to do with their breast size and looks at the entire person, their clothing, their speech, etc.

Unless you think its ok for a porno to be made featuring a 4"5 female char with an A cup wearing a middle school uniform and taking place in a middle school featuring her going to classes and stuff just because she happens to be 18.......

Its nothing against hating A cups or women, its about wanting to not portray child porn and being able to use the excuse that she is over 18, so who cares if we made it look like she was a child for the video.

I support the notion that if something is not illegal, then it's allowed, and those things that are illegal should be few and far between. People like you who are trying to preach morality on every single one of us and aspect of our lives are cancer upon this earth.
So yes, if the laws determin adulthood begins 18+ that adult can do whatever(Within the boundary of not to cause intentional harm to other people), and the consequences of their action should be theirs to deal with it. Society as a whole shouldn't carry their burden. No matter how she or he will look.

Last edited by Drako110; 15 Aug @ 12:48pm

Truth 15 Aug @ 12:53pm

Originally posted by Drako110:
Originally posted by Truth:

You should try to not edit my quote where I already touched on that and the reasons why. Since you edited and removed the relevant part of my quotes i'll repeat it

So again, do YOU support making Pornography using actors that look like children and then making that available to people? Who do you think is the market for that? Its nothing to do with their breast size and looks at the entire person, their clothing, their speech, etc.

Unless you think its ok for a porno to be made featuring a 4"5 female char with an A cup wearing a middle school uniform and taking place in a middle school featuring her going to classes and stuff just because she happens to be 18.......

Its nothing against hating A cups or women, its about wanting to not portray child porn and being able to use the excuse that she is over 18, so who cares if we made it look like she was a child for the video.
I support the notion that if something is not illegal, then it's allowed, and those things that are illegal should be few and far between. People like you who are trying to preach morality on every single one of us and aspect of our lives are cancer upon this earth.
So yes, if the laws determin adulthood begins 18+ that adult can do whatever(Within the boundary of not to cause intentional harm to other people), and the consequences of their action should be theirs to deal with it. Society as a whole shouldn't carry their burden. No matter how she or he will look.

I never once said i supported or didn't support their proposal, i'm simply clarifying that the OP purposely misstated what their intent is and how it works.

Although in this particular case I'd strongly not support someone making pornography with the intent for it to be distributed to people who wish to see child porn and to make it in a way that it appears to be child porn. Same way if someone tried to get around laws regarding child porn by using hyper realistic images and then claiming they aren't real people so it should be allowed. Intent and the logic behind a law can matter just as much as the letter of the law.

If you or others support that its your right, but we will disagree on that.

Ogami 15 Aug @ 12:57pm

Originally posted by Drako110:
I support the notion that if something is not illegal, then it's allowed, and those things that are illegal should be few and far between. People like you who are trying to preach morality on every single one of us and aspect of our lives are cancer upon this earth.
So yes, if the laws determin adulthood begins 18+ that adult can do whatever(Within the boundary of not to cause intentional harm to other people), and the consequences of their action should be theirs to deal with it. Society as a whole shouldn't carry their burden. No matter how she or he will look.

+1

I remember the case of a Brasilian porn star a few years ago. She looks VERY young (is in her mid 20s) and one of her videos was found on the PC of someone who was arrested for something else and the government also accused him of owning child porn.
They even had a "expert" during the trial who under oath said in his opinion the girl could not be older then 14.
The porn actress was contacted by the lawyer of the defendant and appeared before the judge and testified that she was 24 when she filmed that porno video and also had the legal documentation to proof everything.
Of course the guy was let go and the case dismissed after that but it shows what a slippery slope overwrought "morality" and "experts" can lead to.
The guy could have landed in jail for CP because he watched a 100% legal adult video.

Last edited by Ogami; 15 Aug @ 1:01pm

Truth 15 Aug @ 1:00pm

Originally posted by Ogami:
Originally posted by Drako110:
I support the notion that if something is not illegal, then it's allowed, and those things that are illegal should be few and far between. People like you who are trying to preach morality on every single one of us and aspect of our lives are cancer upon this earth.
So yes, if the laws determin adulthood begins 18+ that adult can do whatever(Within the boundary of not to cause intentional harm to other people), and the consequences of their action should be theirs to deal with it. Society as a whole shouldn't carry their burden. No matter how she or he will look.
+1

I remember the case of a Brasilian porn star a few years ago. She looks VERY young (is in her mid 20s) and one of her videos was found on the PC of someone who was arrested for something else and the government also accused him of owning child porn.
They even hat a "expert" during the trial who under oath said in his opinion the girl could not be older then 14.
The porn actress was contacted by the lawyer of the defendant and appeared before the judge and testified that she was 24 when she filmed that porno video and also had the legal documentation to proof everything.
Of course the guy was let go and the case dismissed after that but it shows what a slippery slope overwrought "morality" and "experts" can lead to.
They guy could have landed in jail for CP because he watched a 100% legal adult video.

Yep, I don't agree with it just on the looks of the person, hence why i repeatedly provided examples in which some studios PURPOSELY try to make it appear to be child porn to target a very specific audience. As that is a problem. They use the 18+ bit as a loop hole to make content that is purposely meant to be viewed in a way that almost anyone would find abhorrent to sell it to an audience who is looking for a legal way to buy content that is meant to be illegal.

THOSE are the cases where it should be illegal, where the LOOKS of the person is ONE of the factors. Now if that same actor you mentioned was in a film where she was portrayed as being a student at a middle school and being designed to APPEAR to make her a child that would be far different with the intent.

Similar to how the Protect act of 2003 works. Under that a computer generated image of the same porn star would be illegal. Its indeed a fine line between someone looking young, and some studios trying to purposely simulate content that is repulsive and illegal.

Last edited by Truth; 15 Aug @ 1:08pm

Ogami 15 Aug @ 1:08pm

Originally posted by Truth:
THOSE are the cases where it should be illegal, where the LOOKS of the person is ONE of the factors. Now if that same actor you mentioned was in a film where she was portrayed as being a student at a middle school and being designed to APPEAR to make her a child that would be far different with the intent.

Yeah, no. Dont agree with that either. Nothing illegal is going on in your described case.
Its just "acting". The reason CP is illegal is because children cant consent to sexual activity and its always a case of abuse/exploitation.
None of that is present in a "fake" scenario. I really dont care if someone gets their rock off to a simulated porn video like that, or a game, or a book or whatever.
Fiction is fiction and should ALWAYS be legal because its NOT real.
Everything else is trying to police the thoughts of people and that again is a very slippery slope.

If we follow your argument then any game,story, movie that shows murder should be illegal.
Murder is highly illegal in real life, fictional murder should be treated the same way, just as you want to treat fictional porn the same as the real thing.

There is literally no difference between the two just one you have no problem with ( fictional killing) and one you have (fictional porn scenarios you disagree with).
Both are the same level of fiction and if you advertise for the banishment of one kind of fiction you also have to be for the banishment of ANY kind of fictional content that shows illegal acts.

You cant have it both way.

Last edited by Ogami; 15 Aug @ 1:09pm

D. Flame 15 Aug @ 1:08pm

Originally posted by Ogami:
Originally posted by Drako110:
I support the notion that if something is not illegal, then it's allowed, and those things that are illegal should be few and far between. People like you who are trying to preach morality on every single one of us and aspect of our lives are cancer upon this earth.
So yes, if the laws determin adulthood begins 18+ that adult can do whatever(Within the boundary of not to cause intentional harm to other people), and the consequences of their action should be theirs to deal with it. Society as a whole shouldn't carry their burden. No matter how she or he will look.
+1

I remember the case of a Brasilian porn star a few years ago. She looks VERY young (is in her mid 20s) and one of her videos was found on the PC of someone who was arrested for something else and the government also accused him of owning child porn.
They even had a "expert" during the trial who under oath said in his opinion the girl could not be older then 14.
The porn actress was contacted by the lawyer of the defendant and appeared before the judge and testified that she was 24 when she filmed that porno video and also had the legal documentation to proof everything.
Of course the guy was let go and the case dismissed after that but it shows what a slippery slope overwrought "morality" and "experts" can lead to.
The guy could have landed in jail for CP because he watched a 100% legal adult video.

Exactly. Well said.

#10

Truth 15 Aug @ 1:09pm

Originally posted by Ogami:
Originally posted by Truth:
THOSE are the cases where it should be illegal, where the LOOKS of the person is ONE of the factors. Now if that same actor you mentioned was in a film where she was portrayed as being a student at a middle school and being designed to APPEAR to make her a child that would be far different with the intent.

Yeah, no. Dont agree with that either. Nothing illegal is going on in your described case.
Its just "acting". The reason CP is illegal is because children cant consent to sexual activity and its always a case of abuse/exploitation.
None of that is present in a "fake" scenario. I really dont care if someone gets their rock off to a simulated porn video like that, or a game, or a book or whatever.
Fiction is fiction and should ALWAYS be legal because its NOT real.
Everything else is trying to police the thoughts of people and that again is a very slippery slope.

If we follow your argument then any game,story, movie that shows murder should be illegal.
Murder is highly illegal in real life, fictional murder should be treated the same way, just as you want to treat fiction porn the same as the real thing.

There is literally no difference between the two just one you have no problem with ( fictional killing) and one you have (fiction porn scenarios you disagree with).
Both are the same level of fiction and if you advertise for the banishment of one kind of fiction you also have to be for the banishment of ANY kind of fictional content that shows illegal acts.

You cant have it both way.

In the US its called the Protect Act of 2003 and it does indeed make it illegal to create simulations and computer images and it "Prohibits computer-generated child pornography when "(B) such visual depiction is a computer image or computer-generated image that is, or appears virtually indistinguishable from that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct";"

Many countries have similar laws.

Last edited by Truth; 15 Aug @ 1:10pm

#11

Truth 15 Aug @ 1:11pm

Either way this is a conversation that is completely inappropriate for steam discussion forums and belongs in off topic. I reported it to see if it can be moved, and i won't be continuing any discussions while its here.

#12

Ogami 15 Aug @ 1:15pm

Originally posted by Truth:

In the US its called the Protect Act of 2003 and it does indeed make it illegal to create simulations and computer images and it "Prohibits computer-generated child pornography when "(B) such visual depiction is a computer image or computer-generated image that is, or appears virtually indistinguishable from that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct";"

Many countries have similar laws.

You are moving the goal posts. That law is to prevent people from making "fake" CP with computer generated images that are "indistinguishable " from a real life child.
Meaning it has to be 100% photorealistic. Having a porn movie with a young looking actress is not the same thing. Everyone knows she is not a child. The people who made the video, the people who watched the video.
Nobody is deceived into thinking they are watching a real child.

Originally posted by Truth:
Either way this is a conversation that is completely inappropriate for steam discussion forums and belongs in off topic. I reported it to see if it can be moved, and i won't be continuing any discussions while its here.

Fine by me.

Last edited by Ogami; 15 Aug @ 1:16pm

#13

D. Flame 15 Aug @ 1:23pm

Originally posted by Ogami:
Originally posted by Truth:
Either way this is a conversation that is completely inappropriate for steam discussion forums and belongs in off topic. I reported it to see if it can be moved, and i won't be continuing any discussions while its here.

Fine by me.

I have updated to OP.

#14

Truth 15 Aug @ 1:28pm

Also just to update before I unsub, the OP's claims are completely false and misleading

Originally posted by D.Flame:
Isn't a Australia the same country that made it illegal for an adult woman to take a picture of her own self if she has A cups because it is "a simulated kid"?

That is unbelievably false as you have written it and you make no mention that the law only portrays to adult films and nude images except in a later quote, so if you really wanted the thread to be serious you'd remove that entire section as its not illegal for an adult women to take a picture of herself if she has A cups....

It is not illegal for a women with A cup breasts to take a picture of herself, or a picture of her children in Australia.......

Last edited by Truth; 15 Aug @ 1:29pm

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Date Posted: 15 Aug @ 12:03pm

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