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Kint was "taken out" by one of Raven's guys, before the arrest. Raven took care of him and have prosthetics and be hospitalised (iirc) - so he is setting up a human bomb to be arrested... He has 3 officers on the payroll.
The offficer doesn't say exactly why they were called to the hotel to get this "drunk man who never seems drunk". Jessica lets him off with a friendly warning.
Raven's plan to implant a bomb in the leg and get Kint into the police station, complete.
That part was kinda the only way a bomb could be in the station (it's pulp fiction, it's not gonna be planted by the 3 collaborators - that's suicide - or Raven, because that's giving themselves away - even though they're arrested now - , cos that's kinda how I'd do it if I had to do that IRL... But more devious was the plot with the people who give information about Raven / the hotel.
Without that info (the three dirty cops, the office politics is a red herring, the clueless cops, the cons, the odd man out... Raven wouldn't kill himself, but it might've been a more ironic ending if he did by accident) - it might be difficult to draw a conclusions as to the relationships between Kimt, his leg being the bomb, him possibly being drugged, and conveniently arrested and Raven.
The 2nd part is - the guy's a phone thief, and he's there because he already stole those phones (logged and returned) - which he does again, then passes to a friend who notices that one only has one number... dial it and kaboom.
If you watch the ending video - it might highlight some conversations in this scenario that were missed - I know I didn't listen to a few conversations after I simply know one of the two kids would set off the bomb, as they had the phone - but which....
Where the Raven stands is not his usual place to stand at the desk... He usually stands in the blast zone - the time of the blast - the Raven is not standing in a blast zone that is without cover (ie, the desk)
If you were stuck on who the Raven was, eliminate all the others - everyone's name is mentioned or you can spend 7 minutes on the toilet with the guy. and get a fairly solid hint (plus voice acting, but also lots of story).
He is a person that kills everyone that knows his face. (Voice acting and being the only "mastermind character there, aside), and it is expected at a hotel.
Three people know his face - the office politics is a red herring.
The Raven arranged for a "never drunk but drunk guy" to be arrested, who was fiftted with prosthetic and imprisoned while unconscious.
One of the guys did this for him.
Was the arresting officer of Kint in any way connected to Raven..?
To know that Raven is Raven, you can think - this guy has two phones.
One is stolen by the kids.
When that one number is dialled, the bomb goes off (phone stolen from that guy in the bathroom), who makes sure they're clear of the blast.
Another way to know Raven is "mastermind" voice acting... :p
The cops allude to the boss. The Raven doesn't die, only associates (who he kills as MO, so why be his associate? Maybe they planted a bomb to kill him?!) so it leaves only 4 people.
2 of these are fumbling whether to call a phone number.
One is quiet and away from the crowd.
The other is the desk sergeant.
There's at least 2 reasons why he is who he is, as well as how the bomb got in, who did it and how both the smuggling of the bomb into the station and the accidental, but [un]fortunate for Raven (since they had his phone just logged and bombings are bigger than a phone steal wrap from a petty thief - 2nd degree manslaughter prosecution if really going for it) - unless the desk sergeant put that number in the phone, because he was in on it (which he wasn't, as there were only 3) the number to detonate the bomb via mobile (which was the same or different to the number Kint couldn't raise a call - an arming the bomb call? who made that call to him in that cell? Have to check a few things there to verify 100%).
Really, it was intuition and behaviour for the Raven, and knowing who was not the Raven.
The detonation was one of the two kids - so it was 50:50/ I didn't hear the conversation the first time, even though I know one of them had the phone from Raven (if it wasn't Raven, how'd that single number set off a bomb?
Or was it coincidence?
Hopefully, that will at least give you some clue, as it quite a messy explanation.
I got it now. Damn, this game is really complex sometimes, I love that. :)
Ly buddy, thanksalot again!
I think you must have missed a few conversations regarding Kint's arrest and the motel, (really, it was Jessica who "brought the bomb", as the guy didn't realise he had it - but that's being pedantic :p
Also with the two kids up to and at the time of the bombing.
The gallery one, unfortunately, I started in the entrance way, and simply followed the guy and answered the questions (as I had the correct answers - but without knowing why) while collecting the other names on the way, using "voice acting" and the conversations overheard when following the thief.
Not using the fastforward or rewind feature at all is a good way to play, I think.
I am very much looking forward to more content for this game. #takemymoney.
/* btw - this might be by design or simply due to available talent - it is relevant to future DLC and deduction...
By "voice acting" - I mean that, while the voice acting is good - the characters are, most often voiced in their archetype / role.
The twins have the "CEO" and "black sheep brother" voices.
The thief has the "dodgy thief" voice.
Security has the "security guard voice".
The maestro has the "art snob" voice.
Raven has the "criminal mastermind" voice.
There's only one woman.
Oh, and another hint as to the bomb's location was the fact that Kint's leg was sounding heavy if you walked with him.
While this can make it easier, because the characters appear stereotype voice-cast, it is always good to verify than simply assume.
*/
You're way off there. None of the associates were supposed to end up in prison, and none of the officers are on Raven's payroll (though one is working with Doug). The bombing was NOT supposed to happen at the police station.
The associates (Doug, Sting, and Kint) were all supposed to be at the Hotel when the bomb went off. Raven had told them he was going to choose a successor, and to meet him at a certain time. From Blade, you hear that Raven normally tricks his crew by assembling them for a succession meeting, but instead blows them up.
Raven drugged Kint (hence him being drunk) and put the bomb in his leg (which Raven originally gave to Kint when Kint took a bullet for him). Once the Doug and Sting joined Kint, Raven could set off the bomb (from some other location).
Unfortunately, Raven's phones were stolen by Chip while he was outside the hotel (likely before/after dealing with Kint). Jessica see the theft occur, and Chip was caught immediately by Jessica (likely a rookie cop assigned to hotel security door duty) who took the phones to the station as evidence. Raven would obviously have been told where he could collect his phones, and heads there to do so.
Unbeknownst to Raven, when Doug heard that Raven will be announcing his replacement, Doug decided to remove Kint and Blade from the running and told Tucker (crooked cop) to arrest the other two. When Tucker arrived at the hotel to case it, he found Kint intoxicated and had him taken in (Doug is surprised to hear that Kint was drunk). Tucker then set up roadblocks to catch Sting.
Doug heads to the hotel (driven by his minion Blade) to meet Raven. Blade, being an undercover agent now with info on Raven's potential where-about, fake-crashes his car into Martin, leading to both Blade and Doug being taken in.
The scene starts immediately after Raven shows up at the station to get his phones back. Once he does, he attempts to call his associates from the bathroom (to either make sure they're all together in the hotel room and let him detonate the bomb, or to let them know he'll be late). Neither answer their phone, which confuses Raven (why would they be making calls if they're in the hotel waiting for him?).
Blade, Martin, and Doug arrive shortly after Raven went into the bathroom, so never actually see him. Blade is brought to Martin to pass on the info, while Doug hangs out waiting in a conference room.
Meanwhile, Tucker and Cassidy (waiting at a roadblock) have caught Sting and bring him in (arriving when Doug and Blade are in other rooms). Sting is put in a room for questioning, and Tucker finds out Doug is there and pulls him aside (since he's supposed to be at the hotel being promoted).
While all 3 associates and Blade are in different rooms, Raven finishes using the bathroom and leaves. His bomb phone is stolen by Mickey on the way out.
The 3 associates are all released at once, and are all surprised to see the others (this is the first time any associate has been in the same room as any other). Raven enters to look for his missing phone, and Chip accidentally sets off the bomb.
So Kint and Sting are there due to Doug's backstabbing, Doug is there due to Blade's undercover work, and Raven is there due to Chip's and Mickey's phone thefts.
// this was a crime of opportunity, happy accident, or risky plan B.
The fact that all 3 associates were there... was it coincidence that Raven had his phones "stolen"?
Motive, means, opportunity.
The associates knew that they would die at the hotel, because Raven kills anyone who has seen his face. We know that 2 police are associates, by admission, and likely Kint due to the level of care.
You've explained who is there and what led them there - but what were the motivations?
If a plan A was disrupted, then plan B would be to orchestrate the bombing at the place where all three suspects were present - and give myself a reason to be there.
There are loose ends to tie up, if the phone thieves knew his identity - but, due to familiar connection with the thieves and desk sergeant - they are known phone thieves (and not very good ones).
Was the bombing merely a co-incidence, or was it opportunity on a risky B plan, or was it orchestrated (as it was obvious to the people who knew they were do die, they would die at the hotel..?).
Perhaps we look too much into the details and, unfortunately, without more context, it is impossible to determine if this was the "real" plan, a happy coincidence, or a risky plan B (not like there was a rush to get it done - the bombing was, indeed, accidental, I believe - Raven didn't count on the 2nd snatch or it being given to the other thief - who, also sadly, would be prosecuted for their part in the bombing, along with everyone left alive - other than the grumpy desk sergeant...).
The only person I felt bad for was Jessica. She was the only "good/innocent" person killed.
Yes. The interviewer even asks you if you notice that there seem to be a lot of coincidences (such as 3 people trying to steal the art at the same time in the second mission).
You'll also notice that Dwight is never in the same room with any of his associates (so would never know that they were even there), and expresses concern about why they wouldn't be available. If he knew they were in lock-up, he'd know they wouldn't be able to answer the phone. He also couldn't know that they'd all be exiting the door at exactly the same time (which is certainly a coincidence, since they were escorted out by 3 separate officers from separate sides of the police station).
Actually, none of the associates knew that their boss was Raven. Doug wanted to be the only one at the hotel so he would take over from Dwight. And when Sting is told that Raven is in town, he's surprised by the fact (indicating that he's only heard rumors about him). Sting has certainly met his boss, Dwight, and was headed to the hotel, so it's clear that he doesn't know that Dwight is the man known as Raven.
Which police are you claiming are associates? Sting isn't a police officer, and neither was Kint or Doug. Kint was left in lock-up the whole time while he sobered up, and Sting was arrested for some reason. Blade was undercover with Doug, but wasn't one of the associates who'd met Dwight (only 3 people had ever met him...Kint, Sting, and Doug). Martin is simply trying to set up a sting to catch Raven, and Cassidy is simply Tucker's partner (who has no idea what Tucker is up to). Tucker is working with Doug, not Dwight, and has never met Dwight (or at least doesn't know him to be "the boss" or Raven).
There was no motivation. The bomb exploding was an accident. Raven still planned to head to the hotel (since he had no way of knowing that any of his associates were at the police station). He couldn't have known that Kint had been arrested, Sting had been picked up at a roadblock, or Doug's driver had crashed into a cop car. So as far as Raven knew, his associates were still at the hotel and Plan A was still well in effect.
They had no idea. Chip even told Mickey that he took the phone from "that chump hanging outside".
You keep saying that people knew they were going to die, but again, no one knew that Dwight was Raven. If the police did, they would have just arrested him there when he came to collect his phone. If Sting did, he wouldn't have been headed to the hotel, and Doug wouldn't have tried to keep the rest away just to snag the promotion.
Its quite clear in context that it was an accident, as many of the things you state as evidence to Plan B are not supported by any statements (and in many cases directly contradicted). If you need references, I can list the times and rooms where you can hear the statements I refer to.
Martin and Cassidy were also innocent. Martin was simply trying to catch Raven, and Cassidy simply had a conversation with Sting (who was not under arrest). It's not unusual for police to know exactly who is the mob boss and under-bosses in town...they just usually don't have the evidence to arrest and prosecute them.
Stay this friendly while arguing over the right answer, feel loved & don't let this conversation make any of you feel bad, haha. (I know that conversations like this could make me sad but im a sensible boi sometimes so yeah xP)
Love y'all
Why are you certain of this?
The targets knew they were to be taken out at the hotel - why walk into a trap..?
Yes. The interviewer even asks you if you notice that there seem to be a lot of coincidences (such as 3 people trying to steal the art at the same time in the second mission). [/quote]
A good detective does not believe in co-incidences. A good mastermind doesn't either.
Kept in the dark.
Else he would've been out the police station :P
That is very convenient, I must admit... It was very irregular behaviour for the people in the building.
Are we playing the same game?
You say that Sting and Doug and Kint are the associates?
Doug was undercover handle with blade/sting - he is the reason the criminal is in custody and in the station.
He hit a car and had them both arrested - is this co-incidence or the same deal as the phones being stolen..? Ordered to do it or coincidence..?
The other is in custody due to intoxication - despite never being drunk.
They are unwitting.
They might have been placed anywhere, and been carrying that bomb for a long time.
I don't think Dwight was Raven in my game...
I'll check again - but that doesn't sound familiar to me.
Before I answer any more - I will replay the scenario and check those facts - as I believe this, simliar to the framejob, was more than co-incidence, but a plot that involved all characters (whether they knew it or not).
Except the desk sergeant and chief.
Blade was undercover with Doug, but wasn't one of the associates who'd met Dwight (only 3 people had ever met him...Kint, Sting, and Doug). Martin is simply trying to set up a sting to catch Raven, and Cassidy is simply Tucker's partner (who has no idea what Tucker is up to). Tucker is working with Doug, not Dwight, and has never met Dwight (or at least doesn't know him to be "the boss" or Raven).
They had no idea. Chip even told Mickey that he took the phone from "that chump hanging outside".
Ah, we're not arguing - we're discussing our points of view.
Mine is that the Raven is a mastermind who leaves nothing to chance, and I use the other players in the situation as pieces of his puzzle.
The other is also correct (we both got the right answer, although in a different way) - but does not agree with me, due to not reading between lines and using implication or speculation in order to build a possible truth, beyond what is stated.
The game is "answer these three questions and get the names right".
We both did it, except he did it in one way, and I did it in entirely another.
We'd probably make good partners in a cop-show :p
Like Pembleton and Bayliss from Homicide: Life on the Street (which is awesome, btw).
// I'm pretty sure we're all feeling the love right now <3
Haha, that's so true!
:)) <3
Dwight is Raven. How can Raven keep himself in the dark?
You should probably play it again. The OP even says "Now I wonder: How come that Dwight is Raven & How did Kint get the bomb in there?".
Numerous walkthroughs and gameplay videos show the same thing.
Listen in Tuckers office from 3:15-4:50. Tucker "picked up Sting and Kint to clear the way for you [Doug] to take over". And when Tucker asks Doug what the boss looks like, Doug says "Nice try, only us three have ever seen the boss in the flesh".
Dwight / Raven had someone steal the phone that triggers the bomb from himself? Why not just trigger the bomb himself at the hotel?
The two people who say this are Blade (not an associate, and thus not going to be at the hotel), and Sting (an associate, but one who says he only knows Raven from rumor...not in person).
So you ignore direct evidence and come up with 3rd parties that are never referenced?
Playing office politics mean guilt? Even if no law is broken and it is all for the greater good?
Raven has to interview people to find out who stole his phone when he was there when it happens and the man is arrested right in front of him?
I'm not ignoring them. However, you're ignoring the direct statements and evidence pointed to the fact that this was NOT the plan.