Hello there,

I appreciate your thoughts and feedback on this matter. This is truly a gameplay idea that gathered a lot of different opinions. Here's what I have to say:

Please don't feel so bad if you missed on some or all of these items. They are really extra items, like secrets. The game was not balanced around players finding and using these.

You said you'd want your first playthrough to be about collecting everything, but I'd exclude these items if I were you, since it's getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game.

If something like this is not being fun to you, you should brush it aside. Later if you feel inclined to go for them, you can try in New Game+ or without so much pressure.

This mechanic, which was present in another game of ours (Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight) also was a "hot topic". In our latest release, I've completely removed this gameplay mechanic. From my perspective it was just something fun, a little bonus secret that was pretty much effortless to add. But as the years passed I've noticed posts like yours that made me think the balance tilts more to the negative side than the positive side. So in consideration I've decided to abandon this gameplay idea in our latest release, and probably in future releases as well.

I do agree that introducing different conditions (like you said, win without passive items) could be interesting, but for me this is a bit of a "water under the bridge" situation. It feels like it's beyond my ability to design this properly or in a way that appeals to the majority of players.

Sorry if this turned out a bit rambly, and that this idea is frustrating you.

Yes, I also played Momodora and that aspect was the only thing I didn't enjoy from that game as well. Momodora is a great little game with fun combat and Minoria looked like it will be more of the same so I was very excited to play it.. I guess thats why I wanted to post about the "secret items" thing now, because that mechanic was troublesome in Momodora too.

Thanks for responding to me! I really do like your games a lot.
I'll restart and skip the bonus items.

You know what might be a good compromise: Only enable those bonus items after the game has been beaten once.

Well, enabled or not in a beaten game, you can play once taking damage as normal, then you can buy the frailty incense and play it again, equiping it whenever fighting a boss. Makes it much easier than standing to die if you were hit. Also, the problem is not "being unable to get items if hitten once". My sadness comes from "there is a dozen of swords you collect and the only thing that changes is in between 2 combo styles" if you forget the spoon and the morningstar. Why having that much of swords if they deal the same damage and the combo changes between 2 types? Oh, and don't forget that one sword with the energy in the 3rd hit which is cool but not that useful.

"Rich get richer" mechanics are something I don't like either. Someone who doesn't need it because they're already really good at the game gets extra bonus items, someone who might need it instead misses out on stuff.

>Someone who doesn't need it because they're already really good at the game gets extra bonus item

Whoa Whoa. What is this nonsense? "Because they're good at the game?" "Rich get richer?" Do you think people just pop out of the womb and know how to no-damage bosses?

As someone who went no-damage on every boss, I had to bloody EARN those. It didn't happen "because I'm good"...I was getting wrecked in many fights for many tries before I got it. This is a bonus for people who actually work their butts off to complete a challenge. It's not some "gift." I f***ing earned it.

And, yeah, I love games having cool bonuses for these for people that have the patience to go for them. And I think it's just entitled gamers who complain about this stuff since they've been softened by easy games for so long that they can't fathom the idea of having to actually earn something in a game.

Loved it in Momodora and loved it in Minoria. (Loved it in Order of Ecclesia and Bloodstained as well).

And, for the record, I didn't even use a large majority of the boss drops since I had other items I liked more...so it wasn't this massive advantage. The best item is from the 2nd boss in Sister Devoir who I'd say was appropriately the toughest one to no-damage anyway.

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>In our latest release, I've completely removed this gameplay mechanic

Yes, very disappointing. I really wish devs would stop catering to the whiniest minority. It doesn't hurt anyone to have optional challenging content and devs need to realize there's always going to be people who complain about challenge in EVERY game. Go on any board of any game and you see complaints on challenge no matter how easy it is. It's clear some find the idea of challenge in itself to be patently offensive and these are a lost cause and do not represent the demo of people playing these games.

These people complaining need to grow up and realize not everything is for them. I wish devs would stop giving in to this mindset. Yet another fun optional mechanic gone because kids just can't handle the existence of an optional feature they could easily ignore. Trophy Culture at its worst.

I'm only in the garden, but knowing I missed special boss items is making me consider restarting my run.

A boss rematch option in the library would be cool for obtaining these after defeating them, but before ng+

Oprindeligt skrevet af rdein:

Hello there,

Minoria II please bro.