Originally posted by Dimlhugion:

For each point, you're either spot on, or near enough to make no practical difference. Though, and please don't mistake this for snark because I'm being genuine when I say this, I don't understand your problem.

You still don't know how to actually SOLVE the game. You just know the backdrop plot points. How are you going to RESOLVE the situation? That's the core of the game. That's the meat and potatoes. You're getting upset because you see beyond the veil into the kitchen where they're cooking the meal, but you haven't figured out how to eat it.

Now maybe that's not for you, maybe we should take it at face value that "you prefer it when a game is smarter than you are." But I'd wager you've played more than one game in your life, and many of them are probably WAY less intelligently crafted than this one.

So again, I don't understand your beef, unless you mean to imply you're too good for Tetris.

Thanks for the answer and also for your question, which made me think a lot about why I reacted like this. I don't think my reaction has changed, but I hope I can lay it out in more detail for you.

Basically, it comes down to two things:
- This is a mystery-based game ("mystery" is the third tag, "unravel the mystery of who destroyed it" is in the blurb)
- I unraveled it really, really, really fast

I think that you're right: I've probably played less intelligent games than this. But I haven't played less intelligent *mystery* games than this, or if I have, I felt equally weird about them. When a game sells itself as having a central mystery, my expectation is that it's... well, that it's a mystery, that I'll either slowly put the clues together along the way or that I'll be pleasantly surprised with a twist at the end. I'll put this all in the context I mentioned in the OP, which is that I'm not typically a super proactive mystery solver: I don't go into games trying to "outsmart" them or figure them out long before I'm supposed to. I'm usually happy going along at the pace they want me to go at.

The thing is, "figuring out the big twist within 60 minutes" is clearly not the pace this game wants me to go at, and I've already hit several points where I'm unable to respond with (to me as the player) the obvious answers. The priestess lady asked me to collect people's stories without recognizing that I'd already asked a bunch of people, and when I did re-collect the stories I couldn't tell her that clearly nearly everybody had drowned under similar circumstances, including me I had to wait for the game to tell me that. The crazy lady did her crazy lady rambling, and my character (despite being an archaeologist) could only go "haha so crazy" even though they were all transparently pointing toward the truth. I ran into an old guy underground, and when he asked what god was doing this, I couldn't answer even though I'd figured it out 20 minutes ago. I had to find out IC and come back. It kills the immersion and makes me feel like I've sequence-broken somehow, even though I came to my answers purely accidentally, thanks to the game's incredibly obvious and incredibly early hinting. Meaning it's not my fault, but the writing's fault. And that bodes very poorly for any narrative-focused game. (I also suspect this is a more widespread issue, because I found a Christian shrine with fish symbols and bread, but my character refused to recognize it or even take note of it in the quest log. I find it bizarre to play an archaeologist with less historical knowledge than a pure layman like me.)

I guess you're right and I could refocus my energies on the purely mechanical process of breaking the time loop, but I find this unappealing. Firstly, I solved the mystery way too early to be seriously invested in any of the characters or story. Secondly, I didn't buy this game to play it for the mechanics: I bought it for the narrative and the mystery. It's not like playing Tetris: it's like if I bought a visual novel with a Tetris minigame, but for whatever reason the visual novel aspect turned out to be a waste of time, so the game consists of me holding down spacebar through the dialogue until I hit the next Tetris minigame. The minigame might be fun, but I could just go refund it and buy Tetris. Or a good visual novel.

I don't mean to dog on the devs or anybody who likes the game/didn't work it out as fast as I did, and I'm not going to leave a bad review or anything. But I am pretty disappointed, lol.

Originally posted by katabatic:

The thing is, "figuring out the big twist within 60 minutes" is clearly not the pace this game wants me to go at, and I've already hit several points where I'm unable to respond with (to me as the player) the obvious answers.

That's fair. I was honestly slightly more snarky than I ought have been in my initial response, because I wasn't sure if you were genuine or not. I appreciate the detailed explanation of your point of view, and I agree that would probably annoy me as well. The game is basically trying to get me to self-insert, and if my avatar's personality and/or available choices don't jive with what I'd want to do or say, that could easily break my immersion.

In which case, you'd probably be better off refunding the game because you basically figured it out already. Hope you have a great holiday!

Originally posted by Dimlhugion:

Originally posted by katabatic:

The thing is, "figuring out the big twist within 60 minutes" is clearly not the pace this game wants me to go at, and I've already hit several points where I'm unable to respond with (to me as the player) the obvious answers.

That's fair. I was honestly slightly more snarky than I ought have been in my initial response, because I wasn't sure if you were genuine or not. I appreciate the detailed explanation of your point of view, and I agree that would probably annoy me as well. The game is basically trying to get me to self-insert, and if my avatar's personality and/or available choices don't jive with what I'd want to do or say, that could easily break my immersion.

In which case, you'd probably be better off refunding the game because you basically figured it out already. Hope you have a great holiday!

You too! :)

I've beaten the game three times now, about once per year, and I still enjoy playing it. Even though I already know the story, the game still has replay value due to its non-linear nature. I know that if in an alternate universe I gave up on this game after an hour of gameplay, I would be missing out on not having played one of my favorite indie games.

Yeah, I don't think the OP's take on the game is fair. The game deliberately drops sufficient hints for you to come to those particular realisations within the first hour of play. The whole idea is that your character quickly cottons on to the fact that there is more going on as taking a surface-level approach to solving problems obviously doesn't work for Al. The twists are in getting the various endings. Ending 1 gives you the shock of realising that the time-loop needs to be broken in a sensible way. Endings 2 and 3 give you the shock that someone had a whole hand of cards up their sleeve before you even set foot in the city. And Ending 4 tells you the whole story, well beyond what OP had discovered just from the early character interactions that you are very specifically asked to go off and have.

You guys are all way too late, because I refunded the game in December lol

Originally posted by katabatic:

You guys are all way too late, because I refunded the game in December lol

Yeah, not trying to talk you out of getting rid of the game, just saying your take wasn't fair (not totally wrong, just not fair). as It's only based on your first hour of play. Is the game super deep? No. But there's more to it than the interactions you have with the other characters on the first or second time loops. I hope you watched some others play through it as you suggested.

Originally posted by Cap'n Morgan:

Originally posted by katabatic:

You guys are all way too late, because I refunded the game in December lol

Yeah, not trying to talk you out of getting rid of the game, just saying your take wasn't fair (not totally wrong, just not fair). as It's only based on your first hour of play. Is the game super deep? No. But there's more to it than the interactions you have with the other characters on the first or second time loops. I hope you watched some others play through it as you suggested.

I didn't, but I did read the endings on the wiki and was unimpressed, so I think refunding was the right decision for me. Glad it works for some people though.

Originally posted by katabatic:

I didn't, but I did read the endings on the wiki and was unimpressed, so I think refunding was the right decision for me. Glad it works for some people though.

I don't have many similar games, so hard for me to compare properly. I'd put this above Firewatch and A Story About My Uncle, but below Portal and Myst. For me I'm a fan of the setting though, so that got me over the line for purchasing on sale.

TLDR. But if you guessed Gold Member is behind all of it, you are spot on. Ever since his terrible smelting accident, he is out for revenge.