Originally posted by Tefatika:

Hello. I was just trying out this game.

What to do once you run out of ammo? Which, to me, happens quite often. I'm currently stuck at a boss, I run out of ammo and can't do anything past that, just running around like a fool.

Am I forced into carrying a melee weapon? I personally feel like a bullet hell game should not have melee weapons in the first place, I find counter-intuitive to get into melee with enemies while you should be dodging stuff.

I feel like I should have a default, always-with-you little gun with unlimited bullets. That would give me a choice, instead of forcing the "carry a melee wep".

you arent forced into carrying melee, but it can help you sinc emelle deflects bullets.

you want to prepare for the ammo thing, try to grab weps with more ammo, get perks to add more ammo to your weps, or the ones that refill more ammo when you pick up the boxes.
try to get the perks for carrying aditonal weapons, those help as well.

Originally posted by Tefatika:

Hello. I was just trying out this game.

What to do once you run out of ammo? Which, to me, happens quite often. I'm currently stuck at a boss, I run out of ammo and can't do anything past that, just running around like a fool.

Am I forced into carrying a melee weapon? I personally feel like a bullet hell game should not have melee weapons in the first place, I find counter-intuitive to get into melee with enemies while you should be dodging stuff.

I feel like I should have a default, always-with-you little gun with unlimited bullets. That would give me a choice, instead of forcing the "carry a melee wep".

i would say , when youre just starting out - if you get a melee wep in the " tutorial" part, hjust go back to the title and start a new game. melee is hard to use right off the bat. also depends what mask you have on, some are amazing with melee ( liek beserk )

the gun you start with is terrible, and trust me when i say having it as unlimted ammo wouldnt help you in the slightest, the later levels throw several hundred enemies at you lol.

I'm gonna be making a starter guide soon, to help ppl get going.

I love this game, I just beat normal mode and I'm loving every minute of it. It;s very very challenging.
BUt yeah that tutotiral part, the mask and wep you get are random, so if you don't liek them, go back and start a new game. the game auto saves ( it doesnt use your save allotment ) after the tutorial, so if you get good stuff and die, you're fine.

the devs are also tryign to balance the ammo thing some more - you have to look at the total ammo on a gun, and the DPS for it ( hit " I " or " select" or on a ds4 " back" to check your oinventory, for a breakdown of your masks, weps, and perks.


good luck!


( and feel free to ask any other questions you might have, i'm pretty much a pro at this point lol )

I only rolled one perk up to now which increases my ammo carrying capacity by 50%, but that's not a big help when I can't even find enough bullet to shoot, let alone cap my gun.

I'm several level past the tutorial and I've found a number of weapons as of now. In the beginning, the game feels rather easy to me, consider that I've played The Binding of Isaac for hundreds of hours so I'm basically immortal when it comes to dodging stuff.

But still the problem is the boss. It spawns a million enemies at me which just eat all my bullets until I run out of them and then it's suicide time, which feels stupid.

My point is - from a design perspective, what does the "limited ammo" mechanic achieve? As of now (and I've been playing this game for a very short time, so I have limited knowledge about the mechanics), seems like the only effect is "yeah you must carry a melee weapon and preserve bullets". On the other hand, this game wants me to dodge stuff - which is the whole point of these type of games.

Consider a game like DOOM (2016). That one is a game that also has limited bullets, which is actually a factor in the beginning.
The game provides you really soon with a chainsaw that, upon use, showers you with bullets. The intended effect is that you can shoot as many bullets as you like, but you'll be forced now and then to get into melee and take the risk to refill your ammo. You also drop quite the amount of bullets when killing enemies, expecially when performing melee glory kills.

The intended effect, from a design perspective, is to encourage aggressiveness, which is the whole point of DOOM.

Going back to this game: what is the intended behaviour of the limited ammo? How do I "play around" it?

Originally posted by Tefatika:

My point is - from a design perspective, what does the "limited ammo" mechanic achieve? As of now (and I've been playing this game for a very short time, so I have limited knowledge about the mechanics), seems like the only effect is "yeah you must carry a melee weapon and preserve bullets". On the other hand, this game wants me to dodge stuff - which is the whole point of these type of games.

Consider a game like DOOM (2016). That one is a game that also has limited bullets, which is actually a factor in the beginning.
The game provides you really soon with a chainsaw that, upon use, showers you with bullets. The intended effect is that you can shoot as many bullets as you like, but you'll be forced now and then to get into melee and take the risk to refill your ammo. You also drop quite the amount of bullets when killing enemies, expecially when performing melee glory kills.

The intended effect, from a design perspective, is to encourage aggressiveness, which is the whole point of DOOM.

Going back to this game: what is the intended behaviour of the limited ammo? How do I "play around" it?

i actually havent run out of ammo at all since I learned the ins and outs for the game. and the devs did increase he guns ammo capacity, and how much you restore by picking up boxes.

some things that might help - you can break stuff in the levels to gain ammo, health, or powrrups.

in the first biome, its the ashy bodies, the candles, and there's bodies on the wals you can hit down, and also these weird ocotpous eye things on the walls you can hit as well, those all can drop ammo, life, double damage or invulnerability powerups.

you might have to start a new game from time to time, if you painted yourself into a corner with lack of proper guns, or ammo, or masks. ( i played for abotu 10 hours before i even got close to beating it, but now I can play no normal and hard without even breaking a sweat )

The boss room doesn't seem to contain any destructible object.

Originally posted by Tefatika:

My point is - from a design perspective, what does the "limited ammo" mechanic achieve? As of now (and I've been playing this game for a very short time, so I have limited knowledge about the mechanics), seems like the only effect is "yeah you must carry a melee weapon and preserve bullets". On the other hand, this game wants me to dodge stuff - which is the whole point of these type of games.

Consider a game like DOOM (2016). That one is a game that also has limited bullets, which is actually a factor in the beginning.
The game provides you really soon with a chainsaw that, upon use, showers you with bullets. The intended effect is that you can shoot as many bullets as you like, but you'll be forced now and then to get into melee and take the risk to refill your ammo. You also drop quite the amount of bullets when killing enemies, expecially when performing melee glory kills.

The intended effect, from a design perspective, is to encourage aggressiveness, which is the whole point of DOOM.

Going back to this game: what is the intended behaviour of the limited ammo? How do I "play around" it?

the best advice I can give you is to take things VERY VERY slow. you do NOT want to be agressive in this game! they will literally dump 50 enemies at you in a single spot!

if you can get the perk to hold an addiotnal wep ( which you can get mutiple times, ive had 5 guns at once ) that will help a lot, but consider melee is good because it deflects bullets, does INSANE damage to enemies, you can kinda hide on the sides of walls, and swip at bullets ( defelct shots will hurt enmeies ) and you can kinda poke out when you can, fire some rounds, and then swap back to the melee to keep protecting yourself,


do you have any masks? you shouldnt be trying to play as natasia alone, it makes the game insanely hard.

you can check out my video to see how i handled things if you need a visual for the stuff im mentioned here

Starting out ↓
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmiZuOG__g

Part two ( levels 7 through end boss ) ↓
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh_RvH042Fs

Originally posted by Tefatika:

The boss room doesn't seem to contain any destructible object.

nop, but they always have a mask and a wep at the top of the screen ^^b

Originally posted by Tefatika:

The boss room doesn't seem to contain any destructible object.

like i said, ( and the game even says it too ) you might have to start a new game if things seem to be bleak. if youre at a boss with no masks, no weps and youre nastasia- you probably should start over.

you fight a boss every 4 levels, so level 4, level 8 and level 12 - plan accordingly. when the portal shows up for a level, make sure you didnt leave anything behind, scout for ammo or weps, or masks - etc. the extra time pays off. you can look at the map by holding L trigger on controolers, and it will show any melee weps ( sword icons ) guns, powerups ( liek invuln, or double damage ) and masks - so you dont have to look lol.

but yeah focus on preparing before you get to the next stages

I have two masks, two weapons, the boss room contains a weapon and a mask, yet I run out of bullets because the boss spawns an infinite, crazy amount of adds which eat them all up.

My problem is when I run out of bullets and have absolutely nothing to do other than killing myself. This is what I feel is stupid.

Originally posted by Tefatika:

I have two masks, two weapons, the boss room contains a weapon and a mask, yet I run out of bullets because the boss spawns an infinite, crazy amount of adds which eat them all up.

My problem is when I run out of bullets and have absolutely nothing to do other than killing myself. This is what I feel is stupid.

oh yeah there's a good trick for her, use the ice form. it's spoecial attack keeps her at baym she slows down, takes damage because it makes a giant ice field around her, and the ice filed kills her adds, too. you can pepper the chaos with your gun of choice, i prefer shotguns as they penetrate multiple enemies ^^v

I just kept throwing myself at her until the one I think you all call "berskerer" dropped, I was immortal the whole fight and I tickled her to death.

Now I always keep a melee weapon with me, just in case. Not my first choice since in this game there's an huge amount of bullets flying around and so melee is heavily discouraged, but what can you do.

Finished my first run. The mask I toke actually was the anti-paladin, which I found incredibly OP, just spam immortality and you're good to go.

We're still tweaking the balancing till the release (and beyond). Especially the first boss will most likely get nerfed a bit when it comes to health. Some masks, like the Antipaladin are still overpowered. We're working on it. Just wanted to let you know we are aware of the issue.