Just different challenge modes get unlocked (some of which, like Angel of Carnage, are arguably EASIER than the main normal mode). But character metaprogression as is common in roguelites is not a thing here.

Not all games are well-suited for metaprogression. Imagine playing chess, and after 10–20 games—just when you've finally learned how the pieces move and are ready to strategize—all your pieces turn into queens, making the game meaningless.

Classic roguelikes respect the player’s intelligence. Your true metaprogression is the knowledge you gain through experience. The game becomes easier over time not because of artificial upgrades or arbitrary stats, but because you improve. There's no illusion of progress designed to manipulate your dopamine response—just the genuine satisfaction of mastering the game.

I have become convinced no one ACTUALLY enjoys metaprogression and they've been duped into "liking" it via the carrot on a stick approach. It's a dirty trick. Most devs probably aren't knowingly trying to manipulate their players when they include it, but the end result is the same.

While a funny and harsh response I feel like it dismisses a very typical part of games. Consider in rpgs you level up, that tricks your dopamine and someone could just grind and max out level, yet no one will say leveling up is just a dopamine trick.

Hell, it can be. Just look at MMOs.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Slayer_Gauge:

While a funny and harsh response I feel like it dismisses a very typical part of games. Consider in rpgs you level up, that tricks your dopamine and someone could just grind and max out level, yet no one will say leveling up is just a dopamine trick.

Your character levels up and gets stronger within a run, and you get stronger between runs as you learn more about how the game works.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von blossom:

I have become convinced no one ACTUALLY enjoys metaprogression and they've been duped into "liking" it via the carrot on a stick approach. It's a dirty trick. Most devs probably aren't knowingly trying to manipulate their players when they include it, but the end result is the same.

Nah, Meta-progression is what keeps me in the grind. Without it, there is no real point to playing IMO. But people think different.

Definitely anti-meta progression

Just coming over from drop duchy and I felt like I was being forced to play a tutorial on my first 3 runs even though I was picking the hardest available difficulty

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Peter B:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von blossom:

I have become convinced no one ACTUALLY enjoys metaprogression and they've been duped into "liking" it via the carrot on a stick approach. It's a dirty trick. Most devs probably aren't knowingly trying to manipulate their players when they include it, but the end result is the same.

Nah, Meta-progression is what keeps me in the grind. Without it, there is no real point to playing IMO. But people think different.

My gut reaction is "All this does is prove my point," though maybe it depends on your age. If you are young enough that metaprogression is all you've ever known, well .... that's sad, but I can understand it. If you are old enough that you can remember a time where it didn't dominate games, I call bull**** on the idea "there is no real point to playing without it," because SURELY you played and enjoyed games before you were introduced to metaprogression.

Leveling up absolutely is a dopamine trick. Vampire Survivors proved that and so did MMOs