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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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Not sure if thats weak or strong, but that definitely makes the AI struggle early game...
Cheap glass cannons are an incredible strength.
The Sororitas are overpowered by far. Quite a bit of feedback has been given to Proxy Studios, and they will be looking at it soonish (hopefully agreeing with the players who participated in the feedback !).
AdMech are very strong too. Their early game is difficult, but once they get started, they're a nightmare. With the Breachers finally removing the big weakness of the Admech (no anti-vehicle infantry early on), they're probably the second strongest faction.
Necrons have very strong units (Deathmarks which need a nerf on their teleportation, Heavy Destroyers and Wraith which are abominations), but they are a bit less obvious (because newer factions are also very strong).
Eldars, T'au, Tyranids are close too. Although Tyranids are the worst allies.
Chaos can be strong, but require to invest in a rush, because they usually fall off. Still just a geared Chaos Lord with a few tacticals to redirect damage can be a nightmare for an unprepared opponent.
SM/orks/astra are a bit weaker.
- Mechanicus (Onagers, Kataphrons, Rangers)
- Militarum (squishy infantry)
Everyone else in the middle. Really, the only "problem" races are Sisters and AdMech right now. The rest are fine. I'd even give Orks and AM an easy pass, they just have a weak infantry game (Orks less so if they get to Meganobz).
Finally, RNG and settings (world size, land mass, research speed, player count) will affect everyone differently.
I would argue that the random map generator can provide more imbalanced games than the differences between the factions.
Obviously, not every faction plays the same, and some factions are more suitable than others to each playerstyle. For example, while the Eldar are considered weak by most, they are actually a very competent faction, if you specialize yourself to them and manage to aleviate their weaknesses and exploit their strengths. A player cannot become a master of all factions equally in this game, it is impossible. The factions are so assymetrical that sometimes it feels you are playing a different 4X game with each faction. So obviously each player can be better on some factions than some others.
In the end, choose what you like to play, based on your playing style and taste. Your skill is more important than the faction balance. Every faction right now has all the tools it needs militarily to cope with everything an enemy throws at you, and if you develop your economy according to the faction design, you will be fine.
Chaos Space Marines have really underpowered-feeling vehicles, I always feel like I'm on the back foot when I play as them.
Imperial Guard seem a little busted, spamming Leman Russ tanks and Baneblades makes me feel so unstoppable.
Orks have great resilient infantry. The boyz in the early game are very hard to kill despite the low armor since they have tons of hp and models, and can heal fast, especially on mushrooms. Unless you encounter very strong neutrals (which you should avoid early) you won't have an issue with Boyz tankiness. Tankbustas and Flash Gitz can do tons of damage at range. Ork infantry is fine. Eventually before you reach mid game you get Killa Kans, those are not infantry per se (but get produced at the infantry building) but are tanky enough and very efficient offensively, and they have direct upgrades/replacements to Deff Dreads and Gorkanauts. Also, with Killa Kans and the other walkers you can use Mekz to repair them, so they may not exploit the healing properties and cover, but they can be a very tanky frontline while your tankbustaz/flash gitz pummel the enemy from behind. You can also use Big Mekz to provide tankiness.
Yes, the Boyz may seem squishy vs later tier opponents, but you are not meant to use them after you reach the mid game (even with the armor upgrades). They are expendable cannon fodder. Either disband them or throw them at enemies/neutrals for some influence/ore before they die. In most of my Ork games, i never build more boyz, i keep using the initial 3 until they die. I directly proceed to make more advanced units.
Similar things apply to the Imperial Guard. Guardsmen, like Boyz, can be tanky enough vs non-strong neutrals early in the game. They are not meant to be used when you reach the earlier parts of the mid game, and in most of my games i do not make any new Guardsmen until they die. Heavy Weapon Squads, Ratlings and Tempestus Scions (a direct upgrade to Guardsmen and carry all their research upgrades) are the ones to make in the early game and those are very effective infantry. Guardsmen and Scions with medkits can seriously tank until the enemy gets access to serious infantry-clear weaponry. And by then you get access to Bullgrynz, those with their shield upgrade they can really tank.... So again, i don't agree they have squishy infantry.
I would argue that the only squishy infantry in the early game, really squishy, are the Eldar. But they have mobility and damage to compensate. Also Adeptus Mechanicus and Sisters of Battle, ironically, have squishy early infantry, unless supported.
Underpowered? Respectfully, I must disagree.
Starting off, the Chaos Rhino is likely the BEST and MOST durable starting unit (other than the fact you need to research the vehicle building to get it). The Rhino will utterly crush any neutral squads you face and will be able to beat Umbras, Castelans, and Enslavers over time. Combine their vehicle mobility, good infantry damage, armor, health pool, and THEN their 6 health regen ability. With this, you can clear out the wildlife no problem, run over early game opponent infantry, and even cheese their base. Especially once you get the Havoc Launchers tech and the smoke (Warpflames at tier 10 too if you Rhinos are still around)
I once played against Tyranids in a small map, and I was able to rush 3 Rhinos and quickly find their base. The Rhinos wrecked their gaunts and I killed their city while constantly spamming the regen on the targetted Rhino.
(You can tell I have bias for this unit.)
Continuing on, they can serve as support (shouldn’t make it your frontline unless its early game) all until mid game, and serve an auxiliary role as long range support and as a transport in the lategame.
Helbrutes are essentially CSM Dreadnoughts with a bigger focus on melee and with random buffs. They can rip through infantry or crush armor. Just don’t put them up against fliers. They’ll carry you through midgame and last somewhat in the lategame. Just be careful, as they aren’t durable by any means at that point.
Maulerfiends are a hit or miss with me. They are speedy and have great armor penetration. They negate adjacent melee enemy attacks but they lack significant squad clearing potential. Put them up against vehicles and fortifications, especially melee ones like Wraith(lords? knights? can’t remember) and Deff Dreads and they’ll go to town. I personally prefer taking more Helbrutes before getting into the next unit. They do have a nice regen.
The Forgefiends. These daemon engines are the bread and butter of my army compositions all throughout midgame and lategame. Their Hades Autocannons can work against basically anything, especially combined with their damage ability (the health cost is negated). This is because it has a passive 2 health regen. Also, they have 4 movement.
Those Crawler things are the next melee unit and while they do seem capable at that, I find its better off to keep focus on Forgefiends. The regen the crawlers have comes from killing units, and it regains the same amount as the passive of the fiends. It does come cheaper than the Forgefiends, and the cost is both ore and energy. So if you’re finding yourself at surplus energy, it might not be a bad idea to grab these. They also have synergy with Master of Possessions, as they reduce the MoP’s summoning cooldown.
Land Raiders are just eh. While they do pack a punch, they simply do not match the Forgefiend in ore efficiency and they overshadowed by the units in the next tier. Unless you’re seeking a high quality, durable transport for your heroes, I advise against getting this. Its hefty ore cost is better used on other units.
Namely, the Defiler. While they were the biggest unit in the CSM roster, they are no means a superheavy. They function more like a “superheavy killer”. Put them up against any armor of any kind, and they’ll do their job well.
The Greater Brass Scorpion is interesting, to say the least. I find the extra damage it gets from spending movement to be not worth its price tag, and its normal weapons aren’t enough to carry the rest of the unit forward. So far, I prefer the Defiler over the Scorpion.
P.S. Remember to keep Warpsmiths around in your vehicle comps. You’ll want their very strong vehicle heal and that +12 to energy and ore production they get from level 6. They synergize very well.
This may not be an English assignment, but neither is it Twitter. Unless a poster tries to spam a thread with an epic novel, what is the problem? I mean no offense, but I really don't get complaints like that. If someone writes a long text, either have the patience to read it or don't. It's long, but spaced appropriately and easy to read. Mania went to the trouble to give us his opinion on a whole bunch of Chaos units. Should he really have to provide a summary?
You are extremely rude. We spend our own time to reply and participate in the thread you started, and you complain because our replies are not one sentence.... Seriously, extremely rude. And if long replies bother you, do not read them, no one is forcing you.
The literate people here don't mind long posts. Go get yourself some warm milk and I'll have your mother read these posts to you.
Even if i play since day 1, it’s always great to read experienced players sharing knowledge.
I totally agree with you on rhinos, they were awesome for the early game. But I don't have issues with the early game or fighting neutrals, that's always come naturally to me. My problem is every single other CSM vehicle (that I have access to, don't own all DLC).
The Helbrute- by the time these guys came out, they were already taking heavy damage from every single Adeptus Mechanics enemy type that I was up against. Their ranged attack is just a tickle-beam. Didn't turn the tide of battle at all
The Maulerfiend- these guys had Good movement, good damage, and let me flank my Eldar opponents quite well, I enjoy the Maulerfiend, he's a cool guy
Venomcrawler- maybe I'm using this guy wrong because he just felt like a worse version of the Maulerfiend, didn't get much use out of these at all before I was forced to retreat them for repairs
Defiler - I must be getting trolled... So when these guys started popping out, my Ork opponent had been swarming my base (and the literal entire map, he had killed every other faction, even the Eldar and Adeptus Mechanicus neighbours that I was having trouble with) with tonnes of air units... My Defiler pops out and I'm getting excited because the tides of battle are finally going to turn and I'm no longer going to feel like I'm on the back foot and...
The defiler did six damage to the ork air units. Six. I gave up then and there! GG! Maybe I missed a technology that I was supposed to research or something? I dunno, I shouldn't have to study and do homework just to win a game against AI.
If you want to play on the intended level of difficulty though, you need to put the required effort.
In your case, you used the wrong unit against your target.
The defiler has big melee weapon and relatively small ranged weapons.
Guess what he can't use against air? His big fat claws.
If you have no DLC, you're pretty much ♥♥♥♥♥♥ if the enemy goes air. You need heldrakes. Obliterators might be okayish if the enemy has few air units, but they simply won't work if the enemy has a lot of it.
The forgefiend is a decent answer to air when you have the DLC.
According to the patch notes, Breachers are a Tier 7 unit. I wish they'd nerf it and move it down the tech tree to actually fulfill the role you're talking about, but at Tier 7 you can get better options (unless you're going infantry only). But, alas, all we get are Skitarii Rangers for armor piercing.
Faction's still strong, though.