You can, but there’s no point. There’s no penalties for using a bow in melee range and switching to dual daggers would cost a full attack worth of action points to basically switch to a weaker weapon setup. While possible, there’s no incentive or benefit for any class to switch weapons mid combat aside from early game having a dual wielder or shield user drop their off hand item to gain access to Sucker Punch for an extra knockdown.

So while you could make such a character, it’d just be wasteful.

Daggers to bow is the better option if you really do want to switch in combat as it’s free to unequip items but costs 1 AP to equip stuff, so dropping the daggers to put the bow on is half the cost. Still not worth it as the bow will deal better damage overall.

Yeah, what the fella says above is true.
And needless to say, their core stats you want to max are also different.

You would want to level dual wielding for daggers, while ranged for bows.

Daggers do not get any advantage from Huntsman (bow gets the crit bonus from scoundrel), except that few dagger throw abilities from high grounds, that you don't do often since you're a melee with daggers.

While I get the point of them being both Finesse based weapons, their required stats are just too different. You would need to waste points on both, making you overall weaker with both weapons, instead of being strong with one.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

You would want to level dual wielding for daggers, while ranged for bows.

This isn't true at all. You want Warfare for both for damage scaling. The only weapon skill you should ever invest is Two Handed and that is on a pure strength melee character who already has Warfare at max and this is only because Two Handed has a base damage AND a crit damage increase. Warfare scales damage better than the weapon skills. Always make Warfare your primary skill if you deal Physical damage, no matter the source.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

While I get the point of them being both Finesse based weapons, their required stats are just too different. You would need to waste points on both, making you overall weaker with both weapons, instead of being strong with one.

Technically speaking, you only need 3 points in Scoundrel and Huntsman to learn all the skillbooks for each, 5 if you want the source "ultimate" as well. With Lone wolf, this isn't a huge investment and even a dagger using rogue could benefit from a few huntsman spells like Tactical Retreat or First Aid. So the stat investments really aren't much different to prevent this kind of build. The only real downside is the AP cost of switching as there's no real point to doing so. AP is the S tier resource here, anything that gives you more per turn is typically counted as some of the best options you have simply because of how strong being able to cast more abilities can be. Wasting AP is one of the worst things you can do and can have the largest impact on overall performance.

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

This isn't true at all. You want Warfare for both for damage scaling.

And after 10 level ups you invest your points into... what? Leadership?
I did not speak about -skills- but -weapons-. Warfare is a skill, ranged and dual wielding are weapons. You obviously want to level your weapon for a damage boost.
After you're done with warfare and 3 levels on -skills- to get the books, you would need to level your weapons. Investing into two makes you overall weaker, that is what I referred to.

By the skills, I mentioned that, huntsman gives no synergy with daggers. But for example, scoundrel gives the crit boost for a bow.

Geomancer also has synergy with warfare, as its physical armor boost affects the skill "shields up". But as a dagger guy, you get nothing from huntsman.

I wanted to point out that, there is no working synergy between the -skills-.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

And after 10 level ups you invest your points into... what? Leadership?
...
I wanted to point out that, there is no working synergy between the -skills-.

You invest your points into secondary schools, like Polymorph, Geomancy or Necromancy, and you want to do it early.
Also, there's synergy between the skills. Like Venom Coating/Master of Sparks and Chlorophorm/Gag Order, Chameleon Cloak and Mortal Blow, Living on the Edge and Forced Exchange, etc.

Originally posted by Ash:

Originally posted by Teal V2:

And after 10 level ups you invest your points into... what? Leadership?
...
I wanted to point out that, there is no working synergy between the -skills-.

You invest your points into secondary schools, like Polymorph, Geomancy or Necromancy, and you want to do it early.
Also, there's synergy between the skills. Like Venom Coating/Master of Sparks and Chlorophorm/Gag Order, Chameleon Cloak and Mortal Blow, Living on the Edge and Forced Exchange, etc.

Ah right, so you leave -weapons- on zero, cuz who would need the damage boost and critical chance from Ranged, right. Same with dual wielding for daggers (or single if one dagger).

Also, leave the fact that I was talking about scoundrel and huntsman (those are skills by the way) passive bonuses, really.
I especially mentioned an example about synergy, like warfare and geomancer, expressing why those work, and why huntsman and scoundrel do not.

That is the point.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

Originally posted by Ash:

You invest your points into secondary schools, like Polymorph, Geomancy or Necromancy, and you want to do it early.
Also, there's synergy between the skills. Like Venom Coating/Master of Sparks and Chlorophorm/Gag Order, Chameleon Cloak and Mortal Blow, Living on the Edge and Forced Exchange, etc.

Ah right, so you leave -weapons- on zero, cuz who would need the damage boost and critical chance from Ranged, right. Same with dual wielding for daggers (or single if one dagger).

Also, leave the fact that I was talking about scoundrel and huntsman (those are skills by the way) passive bonuses, really.
I especially mentioned an example about synergy, like warfare and geomancer, expressing why those work, and why huntsman and scoundrel do not.

That is the point.

The damage boost from weapon skills is equal to a single point of your relevant attribute, plus a pretty negligible amount of dodge or crit chance. You still get more value from more points elsewhere, be it Scoundrel for crit damage, things like Adrenaline and Cloak and Dagger, more Huntsman because that adds more damage than weapon skills do as long as you have high ground, or grab other utility skills. Note that points in Polymorph give you the same damage boost as Ranged would, but you can also pick up spells with it as well as cap your attribute faster, leaving time to pick up Wits later for crit chance and initiative.

The weapon skills really only get points from gear. Aside from Two Handed, no weapon skill really adds enough to justify itself unless you have excess points from Lone Wolf. There’s typically always a better alternative.

Originally posted by Teal V2:

Ah right, so you leave -weapons- on zero, cuz who would need the damage boost and critical chance from Ranged, right. Same with dual wielding for daggers (or single if one dagger).

Damage formula looks like this for weapon attacks:
Damage = (Base Damage) x (1 + Elemental Bonus%) x (1 + Attribute Bonus% + Weapon Skill Bonus% + Misc Bonuses%) x (1 + High Ground Bonus% + Crit Bonus%)

If you're putting points in dual wield/ranged before exhausting all other more useful skills, you're just screwing yourself over.

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Note that points in Polymorph give you the same damage boost as Ranged would, but you can also pick up spells with it as well as cap your attribute faster, leaving time to pick up Wits later for crit chance and initiative.

Capping your attribute faster without getting more damage out of it is strictly bad.

If you want to take points in wits, you can just do it whenever you have points. All capping your main attribute does is to take away the option to keep putting points in it.

And since you say max your main attribute first, that means you think it's better to take 1 main attribute than 1 wits (and I wholeharted agree).

Polymorph is better than ranged as having 3 points in poly for skin graft is game changing. Just don't ever go past 5 points in poly, trading 1 skill point for 1 attribute point is never worth it. (In fact, you can trade 1 skill point for 3 attribute points if you use power frames on runes instead of mystical frames).

Originally posted by abaoabao2010:

Originally posted by Teal V2:

Ah right, so you leave -weapons- on zero, cuz who would need the damage boost and critical chance from Ranged, right. Same with dual wielding for daggers (or single if one dagger).

Damage formula looks like this for weapon attacks:
Damage = (Base Damage) x (1 + Elemental Bonus%) x (1 + Attribute Bonus% + Weapon Skill Bonus% + Misc Bonuses%) x (1 + High Ground Bonus% + Crit Bonus%)

If you're putting points in dual wield/ranged before exhausting all other more useful skills, you're just screwing yourself over.

Originally posted by Chaoslink:

Note that points in Polymorph give you the same damage boost as Ranged would, but you can also pick up spells with it as well as cap your attribute faster, leaving time to pick up Wits later for crit chance and initiative.

Capping your attribute faster without getting more damage out of it is strictly bad.

If you want to take points in wits, you can just do it whenever you have points. All capping your main attribute does is to take away the option to keep putting points in it.

And since you say max your main attribute first, that means you think it's better to take 1 main attribute than 1 wits (and I wholeharted agree).

Polymorph is better than ranged as having 3 points in poly for skin graft is game changing. Just don't ever go past 5 points in poly, trading 1 skill point for 1 attribute point is never worth it. (In fact, you can trade 1 skill point for 3 attribute points if you use power frames on runes instead of mystical frames).

i was asking myself the same till i came to the same tought like you..
but would you say putting points into str/dex/int is better then putting it into wits ? i am more like an gamer who like to play with krit builds. either physical or magical does not matter as long it krits and hurts =)

Originally posted by BOT:

Originally posted by abaoabao2010:

Damage formula looks like this for weapon attacks:
Damage = (Base Damage) x (1 + Elemental Bonus%) x (1 + Attribute Bonus% + Weapon Skill Bonus% + Misc Bonuses%) x (1 + High Ground Bonus% + Crit Bonus%)

If you're putting points in dual wield/ranged before exhausting all other more useful skills, you're just screwing yourself over.


Capping your attribute faster without getting more damage out of it is strictly bad.

If you want to take points in wits, you can just do it whenever you have points. All capping your main attribute does is to take away the option to keep putting points in it.

And since you say max your main attribute first, that means you think it's better to take 1 main attribute than 1 wits (and I wholeharted agree).

Polymorph is better than ranged as having 3 points in poly for skin graft is game changing. Just don't ever go past 5 points in poly, trading 1 skill point for 1 attribute point is never worth it. (In fact, you can trade 1 skill point for 3 attribute points if you use power frames on runes instead of mystical frames).

i was asking myself the same till i came to the same tought like you..
but would you say putting points into str/dex/int is better then putting it into wits ? i am more like an gamer who like to play with krit builds. either physical or magical does not matter as long it krits and hurts =)

Main stat is better for damage, and it's not even remotely close.

Bit of maths here. For example, let's assume you're about lvl 9.

You should have around 160% crit damage and 30% crit rate, and around 30 main stat.

So your average damage is around (1+1)*(1+0.3*0.6) = 2.36x base damage.

A point in wits will increase your damage by 0.012x your base damage.

A point in your main stat will increase your damage by 0.059x your base damage.

In this particular case, 1 main stat is worth about 5 wits of damage.

Apply it to any practical situation in the game, and 1 main stat will always give a LOT more value than wits in terms of damage if you care to do the maths. You should only ever consider wits over the main stat if you're also going to make good use of the initiative it gives.

Originally posted by BOT:

i was asking myself the same till i came to the same tought like you..
but would you say putting points into str/dex/int is better then putting it into wits ? i am more like an gamer who like to play with krit builds. either physical or magical does not matter as long it krits and hurts =)

You go Wits once you have the main stat capped. You get your 40 finesse, possibly using Poly to get there faster, then you dip Wits with remaining points as you get later and later game. You don't put more than a few points in Wits until then.

ok and one side question here.. i mostly invested in wits and in memory.. i never had good items to invest more then 2 points in str or int or dex.
espacialy with int i never got good gear even when i had 16 or 20 int .. all the gear i had to buy from vendors was based on dex or strenght

Originally posted by BOT:

ok and one side question here.. i mostly invested in wits and in memory.. i never had good items to invest more then 2 points in str or int or dex.
espacialy with int i never got good gear even when i had 16 or 20 int .. all the gear i had to buy from vendors was based on dex or strenght

Not really sure what the question was in there.

If you mean how do you get items that fit your character more, you just kinda don't. Its random, so sometimes it'll be good, sometimes not. You get basically no control there.