htoL#NiQ: The Firefly Diary

htoL#NiQ: The Firefly Diary

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The 30 FPS Question
Hello doods!

Some of you (well, mostly our Beta testers!) may have noticed that The Firefly Diary is now capped at 30 frames per second. I would like to take a minute here to explain the reason behind this and maybe shed some light on the development of FFD for Steam. We not only want to release only the best possible version of this game, but also preserve that special experience that those who played the game on the Vita had.

First, a primer: FFD for Vita runs at around 30 fps. This doesn't fluctuate much, and on Vita hardware, significant decreases (or increases) of fps aren't particularly noticeable. This is especially true of the slow-paced, stylized puzzle game FFD.

When the game was originally ported for a Steam release, we worked with our developers to try to have the game run at around 60 fps, believing that this was a reasonable expectation for modern PC games. However, we quickly discovered that uncapping the game's frame rate caused the game to behave incorrectly. To put it simply, the game was running twice as fast as it should have been, making some puzzles near impossible to complete while making others skippable if you could time it right.

So what happened? Well, it has to do with the original programming of FFD on the Vita. Our developers working on the port discovered that the game's processing speed (how many calculations and executions were being made) was dependent on the framerate. Calculations were outputted every time the frame refreshed, rather than operating on a separate clock. This means that if your computer is capable of running the game at 300 frames per second, the game will literally run 10 times faster than it did on the Vita because ten times as many calculations are being updated. If your computer can only manage 10 frames per second, the game will appear to be painfully slow, because only a third of the typical number of calculations is being updated.

Obviously, my doods, we don't want that. The Firefly Diary is extremely dependent on timing for its puzzles (it also contributes to the game's atmosphere). The speed of the game is critically important, and the game's slow, methodical pace is the way it is intended to be played. In order to preserve the FFD experience, and in an attempt to make the game operate as closely as possible to the way it operated on the Vita, we and the devs made the decision to cap the framerate at 30 fps. One of the main challenges our devs are facing now is to optimize the game to the best of our ability to run at close to 30 fps on as many computers as possible. We are working diligently to ensure that computers that meet minimum spec requirements will run the game at 30 fps as often as possible, for a seamless experience.

We know that this might come as bad news to some of our fans, and we do sincerely apologize for implementing a restriction of this kind. But hopefully, this post will help everyone understand where we are coming from on this, and I assure you all that we are always looking for ways to improve.

Thanks for reading, doods, and as always, leave feedback and play on!
Last edited by NISAAlex; 26 Apr, 2016 @ 4:00pm
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Showing 1-15 of 47 comments
ffleader1 26 Apr, 2016 @ 7:08pm 
Knowing that you guy have already expected a bunch of bad reviews for 30 FPS in 2016, I have some suggestion:
1) Add a 60Hz option to the resolution screen. So let say at 1080p, it should have option like this:
1920x1080 @30Hz
1920x1080 @60Hz
When players figure out they can't get away with 60 FPS, they would have to switch to 30 FPS. You guy can just give them a warning before hand.
2) Add a 45 Hz option.
I have no ideal if it can balance the difficult and the framerate, hard to tell but if you decide to try this way, you can give us BEA an update for:
1920x1080@45Hz
Cartography Dee 26 Apr, 2016 @ 7:28pm 
@ffleader1 I'm not sure who would use a 60 fps option when it makes the game run twice as fast, and potentially break the physics engine.

It's a shame that reprogramming the game to use 60 fps was deemed more trouble than it's worth. Fortunately, it's not as impactful in a slow paced game like this one though.
ffleader1 26 Apr, 2016 @ 7:41pm 
Originally posted by Cartography Dee °д°:
@ffleader1 I'm not sure who would use a 60 fps option when it makes the game run twice as fast, and potentially break the physics engine.

It's a shame that reprogramming the game to use 60 fps was deemed more trouble than it's worth. Fortunately, it's not as impactful in a slow paced game like this one though.
Yeah I used to play Ps1, Ps2 emulator and same thing happens when the game run at 60 FPS (at least back then): the game just run twice as fast...lol.
So I guess what the developers did here is to create an environment that "emulate" the game on PS Vita, like an emulator, and run the game on it. So basically we are playing a PS Vita emulator with htoL#♥♥♥: The Firefly Diary.
That is just my stupid wild guess.
So, anyway, now I know that developers had expected the 30 FPS disaster from our community, I think 45 FPS is a better option. Of course i can't gauge the impact, on the game size, but it's still better than 30 FPS, on the graphic size, for sure.
Sonicfanx1 27 Apr, 2016 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by Cartography Dee °д°:
@ffleader1 I'm not sure who would use a 60 fps option when it makes the game run twice as fast, and potentially break the physics engine.

It's a shame that reprogramming the game to use 60 fps was deemed more trouble than it's worth. Fortunately, it's not as impactful in a slow paced game like this one though.

I participated in the previous beta test of the game. I haven't had the time to try out the new and improved Firefly Diary yet (planning to on the weekend) but I can say this: the 60FPS thing and the 2x processing only makes things impossible on the final boss. Everything else is/was...tolerable I suppose, but I haven't played the latest itteration of the Steam game so I can only speak from one point of view.
ffleader1 27 Apr, 2016 @ 9:32am 
If you guy are curious about how this game would be in 60FPS without its speed doubled, head to NISAAlex's post in the BETA Branch
TrishaCat 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:42am 
Originally posted by ffleader1:
If you guy are curious about how this game would be in 60FPS without its speed doubled, head to NISAAlex's post in the BETA Branch
link please
HEHEHeheh.he.h 27 Apr, 2016 @ 1:04pm 
I am not sure how 30 fps makes better atmosphere then 60 fps (but if you mean 2x speed then i understand) and i do not care is game 30 or 60 but i know there is some picky/people who only want 60 fps so that is one bad thing and i think 30 fps all the time is better then lot jumping 60 fps and lastly i think 60 fps is not needed but some people may say it is because last battle but what do i know.
ffleader1 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:05pm 
Originally posted by Battlechili:
Originally posted by ffleader1:
If you guy are curious about how this game would be in 60FPS without its speed doubled, head to NISAAlex's post in the BETA Branch
link please
here (BETA testers only)
http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/368640/discussions/6/357284131809227729/#c357284767232218453
Last edited by ffleader1; 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:40pm
TrishaCat 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:17pm 
Originally posted by ffleader1:
here
http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/368640/discussions/6/357284131809227729/#c357284767232218453
No forum available
I guess since I'm not part of the beta I'm not allowed to see it.
ffleader1 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:36pm 
Originally posted by Battlechili:
Originally posted by ffleader1:
here
http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/368640/discussions/6/357284131809227729/#c357284767232218453
No forum available
I guess since I'm not part of the beta I'm not allowed to see it.
Oh, I though you are a BETA tester.
Anyway, I can't disclose anything so sorry :<
But wait for the game.
I don't know, maybe devs will be able to fix it, somehow, magically :D
Last edited by ffleader1; 27 Apr, 2016 @ 11:38pm
therealbaka 28 Apr, 2016 @ 2:20am 
Ok so game was badly programmed and you don't have the resources to fix it ? Not really something i was hoping to see here, but at least you are saying it.

Just a programmer tips here : Can't you do a "fake smoothing" 60 fps ?
- One frame "normal mode"
- One frame which is the replica of the previous one with updated mouse position
Originally posted by ffleader1:
Knowing that you guy have already expected a bunch of bad reviews for 30 FPS in 2016, I have some suggestion:
1) Add a 60Hz option to the resolution screen. So let say at 1080p, it should have option like this:
1920x1080 @30Hz
1920x1080 @60Hz
When players figure out they can't get away with 60 FPS, they would have to switch to 30 FPS. You guy can just give them a warning before hand.
2) Add a 45 Hz option.
I have no ideal if it can balance the difficult and the framerate, hard to tell but if you decide to try this way, you can give us BEA an update for:
1920x1080@45Hz

Rarely any monitor supports 30Hz or 45 Hz refresh rate. The best you can do is let the player choose at the start whether they want to go with 30 or 60 FPS. With 60 Hz monitors that's fine, because in case of 30 FPS, the engine will show the same frame twice.
ffleader1 16 May, 2016 @ 8:44am 
Originally posted by Piotrek, Engineer of Design:
Originally posted by ffleader1:
Knowing that you guy have already expected a bunch of bad reviews for 30 FPS in 2016, I have some suggestion:
1) Add a 60Hz option to the resolution screen. So let say at 1080p, it should have option like this:
1920x1080 @30Hz
1920x1080 @60Hz
When players figure out they can't get away with 60 FPS, they would have to switch to 30 FPS. You guy can just give them a warning before hand.
2) Add a 45 Hz option.
I have no ideal if it can balance the difficult and the framerate, hard to tell but if you decide to try this way, you can give us BEA an update for:
1920x1080@45Hz

Rarely any monitor supports 30Hz or 45 Hz refresh rate. The best you can do is let the player choose at the start whether they want to go with 30 or 60 FPS. With 60 Hz monitors that's fine, because in case of 30 FPS, the engine will show the same frame twice.
I meant for the options in game to have either 30 FPS cap or 45 FPS cap.
Mairo the bear 16 May, 2016 @ 4:45pm 
Originally posted by ffleader1:
Knowing that you guy have already expected a bunch of bad reviews for 30 FPS in 2016, I have some suggestion:
1) Add a 60Hz option to the resolution screen. So let say at 1080p, it should have option like this:
1920x1080 @30Hz
1920x1080 @60Hz
When players figure out they can't get away with 60 FPS, they would have to switch to 30 FPS. You guy can just give them a warning before hand.
2) Add a 45 Hz option.
I have no ideal if it can balance the difficult and the framerate, hard to tell but if you decide to try this way, you can give us BEA an update for:
1920x1080@45Hz
DO NOT INTERCHANGE REFRESH RATES WITH FRAME RATES!
Sorry for the caps, but that's important. Not only would that solution mean that the developers would not have any frame rate caps in place and rely on vsync to do the capping job (REALLY BAD), it would also mean that monitors would have to have 30Hz as supported mode and my monitor doesn't even have 60Hz without me manually adding it.

At that point do not mess around with monitors refresh rate, where highest is always adviceable with every situation, even if the game ran 10 FPS, they would simply need to have seperate frame rate slider/tickbox.

Also if they did give option to play the game over 30 FPS directly, that would mean they would have to support it one way or another, even if there are warnings.

Originally posted by ffleader1:
Yeah I used to play Ps1, Ps2 emulator and same thing happens when the game run at 60 FPS (at least back then): the game just run twice as fast...lol.
So I guess what the developers did here is to create an environment that "emulate" the game on PS Vita, like an emulator, and run the game on it. So basically we are playing a PS Vita emulator with htoL#♥♥♥: The Firefly Diary.
That is just my stupid wild guess.
So, anyway, now I know that developers had expected the 30 FPS disaster from our community, I think 45 FPS is a better option. Of course i can't gauge the impact, on the game size, but it's still better than 30 FPS, on the graphic size, for sure.
...no, no and no.
With super old games you might see emulators being used because it's far more efficient to use those instead of trying to port old games natively, including mega drive/genesis games and that bubsy game. Because there's already well established ways to emulate those systems. But 99.99% of games you see coming from consoles to PC are natively ported.

As for 45 FPS, oh my god no! I'm still willing to bet that majority of PC users use 60Hz monitor or TV. 30 FPS means every frame is shown twice, that's nice. 45 FPS would mean that there's three frames shown, then third frame is shown twice and then three frames again. That would not only mean massive and constant stuttering, but because how the game was coded, it would also mean there will be problems because frame rate is exceeding 30 FPS.

Originally posted by therealbaka:
Ok so game was badly programmed and you don't have the resources to fix it ? Not really something i was hoping to see here, but at least you are saying it.

Just a programmer tips here : Can't you do a "fake smoothing" 60 fps ?
- One frame "normal mode"
- One frame which is the replica of the previous one with updated mouse position
If the game uses OS cursor, then it moves completely indepented from the games frame rate. That's why some games offer on settings to toggle between OS and games own custom cursor or simply just use OS cursor all the time. However seeing how cursor is part of games aesthetic that wouldn't be nice.

As for "fake smoothing", it's usually intense motion blur added, making everything look blurry while still being updated at 30 FPS. Lose/lose.

Alternatively use frame interpolation. However I haven't seen single game using frame interpolation as way to double 30 FPS to 60 FPS, because it would have to be done post processing, meaning it requires some horsepower to generate those frames as fast as possible and not only would it add input lag to game because it needs frame after the current one, but also would look horrible if the algorithm fails to calculate frames correctly.

Also if you really wanted to use frame interpolation, just plug the PC into TV model from last several years and disable game mode and you basically get the same result.

TL;DR: Just learn to accept that sometimes it's much more pain trying to make game working at higher frame rates than to simply play it with frame rate it's running. Especially in these cases where they made stuff exclusively around one single handheld device. I have played so many awesome 30 FPS games that I only feel sorry for those discarding games exclusively because of that number and if you get things on PC, you are still more likely to get bit superior experience out from the game at bit lower price.
Last edited by Mairo the bear; 16 May, 2016 @ 5:02pm
ffleader1 16 May, 2016 @ 5:48pm 
Originally posted by Hyper Mairo:
DO NOT INTERCHANGE REFRESH RATES WITH FRAME RATES!
Sorry for the caps, but that's important. Not only would that solution mean that the developers would not have any frame rate caps in place and rely on vsync to do the capping job (REALLY BAD), it would also mean that monitors would have to have 30Hz as supported mode and my monitor doesn't even have 60Hz without me manually adding it.
I didn't meant to mess with the refresh rate in anyway. The way I am writing this is similar to how they wrote in the menu Hyperdevotion Noire: Goddess Black Heart. I know two things are different. I just write it like that for convenience.

Originally posted by Hyper Mairo:
...no, no and no.

Not sure where are the 3 "no" directed from.
For the first "no", if it's about playing an emulator and it run twice as fast thingy...yes! I guaranteer you that. I do not know if newer version of emulator allows games like Final Fantasy VII,VIII,IX,X,X-2,XII to play at 60 FPS, but at the time I play it, around 2008-2010, 60 FPS is actually the games running twice as fast. I have Ps2 emulator somewhere in my PC, could give you a footage in case you need.
For the second no about me guessing...it's literally a guess, and I said it's just a wild guess. So if you don't think it's possible then I have nothing to talk about.
For the third "no"...this is the problem. I won't argue about the "how the game is coded"part because devs actively said there are problems. However, if you actually think 30 FPS is worse than 45 FPS because of stuttering and stuff, I can give you plenty of reason it's not.
1) Look at the video, change to 720p/60fps for the correct experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwhqJYyjOrQ
At 45 FPS, things look smooth, not good as 60 but still smooth, more than 30 FPS for sure. See any stuttering?
Another example is movie, which is generally 24 FPS, not even 30. Which means that by showing a movie on a 60 Hz screen, for ever 2 frames in a movie, one has to be doubled and other has to be tripled...12x2+12x3=60. That's even worse than for every 3 frames, doubling the last. I don't know about you but I experience no stuttering in watching a movie.
Even if the game renders 3 frame per 1/15 seconds, you won't feel any stuttering. Everything is too fast to notice, but the overall effect is huge. 30 FPS to 45 FPS is a big step up.
2) Games are not movies. They need more than 30 FPS for a reason, except a small % of game with slow pace like this one or mine sweeper. 24 FPS in movies are smooth, yes, but 24 FPS is game is...nope.., or even 30. Would say 45 is acceptable. Reason:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/330xxw/why_does_a_24_fps_movie_look_smooth_while_a_game/
Last edited by ffleader1; 16 May, 2016 @ 6:02pm
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