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turtle225 13 Mar, 2021 @ 7:42am
Fast Ad. and Anticipation Mechanics with Buffs/Debuffs
I don't think that this is well known, so I thought I would share it. Short story is that Fast Ad. and Anticipation both provide their value before Buffs/Debuffs are factored in, which means that Buffs/Debuffs can increase or decrease the return.

I've documented this for Fast Ad. for awhile, and I think I've posted about it in the past when I was talking about Lone Wolf, but Anticipation is new for me, and I had the mechanics wrong before.

Fast Ad.
Normal Fast Ad. yield is 10%.
  • Buffs such as Confidence/Lone Wolf will increase stack yield (ie 11-12% per stack)
  • Debuffs such as negative morale, injuries, Overwhelm, nighttime, etc. will decrease stack yield (ie 7-9% per stack, potentially less if multiple debuffs stacking)

As an example, if I have 60 or 64 base skill and LW:
→ 60 * 1.15 = 69
→ 64 * 1.15 = 73 (73.6)

If I have one Fast Ad. stack:
→ 60 + 10 = 70 * 1.15 = 80 (80.5) - Stack was worth 11% (69 → 80)
→ 64 + 10 = 74 * 1.15 = 85 (85.1) - Stack was worth 12% (73 → 85)

Similarly, debuffs such as negative morale, etc. will reduce your stack gains. Interestingly, Overwhelm reduces stack gain too, making it something of a counter. I verified this against the Conqueror in the Monolith. He got up to 6 or something stacks and Overwhelm was helping weaken that down.

Anticipation
Anticipation works the same way as Fast Ad., in that it will increase your RDF before buffs or debuffs are applied. In the past I had this backwards in that I thought buffs/debuffs were applied to stats before Anticipation calculated its 10% return.

Base Anticipation value is 10 RDF.
  • If #Tiles distance * 10% of base RDF is greater than 10, we get that return instead
  • Anticipation counts every tile for distance (unlike ranged weapon accuracy dropoff which usually counts one less).
  • After Anticipation determines its return (10 or greater) that gets added to bros RDF
  • Buffs/Debuffs are then applied, which can boost or weaken Anticipation's return

For our example, let's assume an Overseer is shooting us with his Xbow at 6 tiles range.
→ 0 RDF: Anticipation yields + 10
→ 10 RDF: Anticipation yields + 12
→ 16 RDF: Anticipation yields + 15 (15.6)
→ 20 RDF: Anticipation yields + 18

Now let's assume we are rooted under Shaman Roots or a Net (-35% RDF). Yields will show how much is gained under the Roots compared to not having Anticipation.
→ 0 RDF + 10 (Ant) * .65 = 6 (6.5) - Ant yields + 6 RDF (0 → 6)
→ 10 RDF + 12 (Ant) * .65 = 14 (14.3) - Ant yields + 8 RDF (6 → 14)
→ 16 RDF + 15.6 (Ant) * .65 = 20 (20.54) - Ant yields 10 RDF (10 → 20)
→ 20 RDF + 18 (Ant) * .65 = 24 (24.7) - Ant yields 11 RDF (13 → 24)

Let's now assume our smug bro is Confident (+10% RDF) under the Roots.
→ 20 RDF + 18 (Ant) * .65 * 1.1 = 27 (27.1) - Ant yields 13 RDF (14 → 27)

One more, let's assume you have a 73 skill Xbow shooting a Fleeing Ambusher at 2-tiles.
→ 73 RSK + 15 (Xbow) -3 (Dist) = 85 - 21 (20 RDF Ambusher + 10 Ant * .7 Fleeing) = 64% final hit chance.

Conclusion
So what is the takeaway here? It is helpful to understand the order of operations for things so that you know what value you are getting.

For Fast Ad. if you can maintain Confidence (having high Resolve) you can get more value out of the perk. Conversely, if your Resolve is junk and you get dropped in morale than the perk is worse off. Overwhelm enemies can weaken your value, and archers at night will get less value, etc.

For Anticipation, the same morale considerations are in play. Also, common Goblin debuffs such as Nets, Roots, and Flies will also greatly weaken your Anticipation returns. The 10 RDF minimum of the perk is a bit misleading, because that's not a flat guarantee, as that too gets impacted by buffs/debuffs.

Thanks for reading. If this was new information for you, does it change how you think of these perks at all?
Last edited by turtle225; 13 Mar, 2021 @ 7:46am
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
suejak 13 Mar, 2021 @ 7:47am 
Very interesting. Great work!

I like this, but I also don't like how it makes something like Overwhelm or an injury further cripple a guy, even with FA. I think of FA as a neat way to counter such things.

What about Backstabber? Is that a flat boost?
turtle225 13 Mar, 2021 @ 7:56am 
Originally posted by suejak:
What about Backstabber? Is that a flat boost?

Backstabber should be a flat boost as it just modifies the surround bonus return. Buffs/Debuffs shouldn't apply.

Weapon modifiers however are subject to Buffs/Debuffs. As in, a Spear's +20% and a Xbow's +15% are modified by the same morale effects, injuries, overwhelm, etc. as Fast Ad is. Having one Fast Ad. stack us functionally the same as having a Sword's +10% hit chance.

This can be of interest to a LW, who can gain a bit further boost from a Sword's +10% bonus than a regular bro would. Conversely, a LW Puncture guy would get less raw value out of their LW because the Puncture penalty will apply before the LW boost.
Scathe 13 Mar, 2021 @ 10:36am 
I would already pick gifted and backstabber as usual accuracy boosts before fast adaptation, this new information didn't change that. I may still pick fast adaptation on a bow guy I'm working on.

I think this new info did make me less likely to pick anticipation. but I was already unlikely to pick it. weaker than 10mdef against goblins when rooted? not good considering goblins are the main enemy to pick anticipation to counter.
Krax 13 Mar, 2021 @ 2:27pm 
Hi turtle225, do you have vids on youtube or twitch i can watch of you playing? Thank you in advance.
turtle225 13 Mar, 2021 @ 3:50pm 
Originally posted by Krax:
Hi turtle225, do you have vids on youtube or twitch i can watch of you playing? Thank you in advance.

I've only made two videos, both on the Beggars/Cripples run. Their quality isn't great and I don't play especially well, but if you want to watch them here they are.

Edit: (there's three videos now)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIg4pxiaySMs08zyMtL0Kig
Last edited by turtle225; 13 Mar, 2021 @ 8:58pm
Heron 13 Mar, 2021 @ 4:37pm 
Good to know.

I've picked FA the first time since ages on an endgame 78 matk duelist in my current campaign and really like it. For a frontliner who attacks twice per turn it's solid.

The takeaway message for me is that FA is slightly better with good resolve and vulnerable to overwhelm / injuries.
My view on anticipation remains unchanged. I'd still never take it on any bro ever in the current meta. =D
Last edited by Heron; 13 Mar, 2021 @ 4:56pm
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Date Posted: 13 Mar, 2021 @ 7:42am
Posts: 6