Battle Brothers

Battle Brothers

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turtle225 21 Jan, 2020 @ 1:55pm
40% Nimble Tests | Steelbrow | Gifted
EDIT (1/16/2021): Reworked this analysis due to recent attachment re-balance. Previously these tests assumed Bone Plate attachment. I have now removed the BP and am testing with no attachment. I've also reformatted the post for easier reading, and I've changed the metric returned to avg. number of hits to die instead of just adding the total number of hits taken because that old metric was kind of meaningless except for comparison sake. Avg. hits until death is more understandable. Conclusions have remained the same.

EDIT (8/13/20): I added 4 more enemies to the test group in the calculator and a few other updates. I've rerun the numbers. Blazing Deserts also introduced new armor, notably the Assassin set with 140 (Assassin Metal Mask) and 120 (Assassin Robes). The 140/120 set is a perfect -15 for Nimble, and clearly the best Nimble line. It is held back by the rarity/difficulty of obtaining the armor. I've updated the OP with the new calculations and put in an Assassin line for reference. Information in the comments may contain outdated information.

Introduction
I said I was going to do something like this awhile back, and here it is. Let's take a look at how a few 40% Nimble options do against a gauntlet of 35 enemies and for fun let's also check how Gifted and Brow do. TLDR conclusions at the end if you don't care about the methodology and numbers.

Methodology
How I'm going to score each test is the average mean number of hits they survive against all 35 enemies (the test will give 35 means, then I mean the means for the score). The enemies are drawn from all factions and most weapon types are represented. However, there is a bias toward more dangerous enemies (ie: 4 Chosen tests, no Weidergangers). Enemy perks and weapon logic is factored.

The Nimble lines being tested are as follows:
  • 120/95 (Sallet + Leather Lamellar)
  • 190/65 (Barbute + Gambeson)
  • 40/160 (Necro Hat + Noble Mail)
  • 140/120 (Assassin Mask + Assassin Robes)

Assumptions
  • Nimble, Colossus, and no attachment are assumed.
  • Enemies will have their respective perks/weapon skills in play.
  • 100% hit chance (except in the specific Chosen test at the bottom)

Disclaimers
  • This is an obvious oversimplification. I still think the data is useful.
  • I've limited testing to 40% lines, because the way the scoring works tends to make it difficult to compare other lines without a lot of skepticism. For example, Noble Mail lines survive more hits against Boondock Bows which skews results in their favor, even though they may die faster against Chosen.
  • The score doesn't tell the full story of course. Just because a line scores the highest in the enemy gauntlet, doesn't necessarily mean it is always to best choice.
  • Gifted test is just +5 hp (Colossus assumed). The calculator does not factor hit chances.
  • Attachments are not factored, and may have differing value depending on the line used (ie Bone Plates would offer better return on Nimble lines that are biased toward more head armor).
  • The calculations are obviously biased to the 35 enemies I tested against and the weapons I have given them. I can't test everything.

Results
Recall that defender has Nimble, Colossus, and no attachment. Score is the average mean number of hits to die against the 35 test enemies. Gifted is just +5 HP here.

Nimble Line
80 hp
100 hp
120 hp
120/95
5.49
6.28
7.07
120/95 Gifted
5.7
6.47
7.25
190/65
5.41
6.31
7.15
190/65 Gifted
5.64
6.53
7.37
40/160 Brow
6.16
6.95
7.79
140/120
6.08
6.89
7.68

Here is a more granular example of a defender with 25 melee defense + Underdog vs a Chosen 2H Mace Cudgel + Crippling + Executioner. Hit chance is factored into this one, so without Gifted there will be a 50% hit chance and down to 47% with. Defender still has Nimble/Colossus/No attachment. Defender has 100 HP before Gifted (Colossus assumed). Scores are the number of expected swings (not hits) taken until death.

Nimble Line
Swings
120/95
7.88
120/95 Gifted
8.58
190/65
7.99
190/65 Gifted
8.86
40/160
8.05
40/160 Gifted
9.25
40/160 Brow
9.35
140/120
8.5

Conclusions
  • The new (as of BD) Assassin set is clearly superior to our old options.
  • The helmet favored line (190/65) works better the higher your HP, as it means you are more likely to survive long enough to get hit in the head multiple times. Not shown here, but you can drop to a Necro Shirt (60) and add Bone Plates while staying at 15 Fat cost.
  • The 40/160 Brow line consistently scores the highest, but not by much, and is only about equal to the Assassin set when it doesn't have Brow.
  • Switching to 40/160 Brow line from the no-perk non-Assassin lines is roughly worth + .64-.67 hits taken. Gifted 5 hp is roughly worth .18-.23 hits taken on those lines. We can loosely say that Brow is worth about 15 hp, (or 3 level ups in hp), but maybe that is too much extrapolation.
  • Brow gains are slightly lower when used on a regular line instead of the lopsided Noble Mail line.
  • While I did not display Injury numbers, the Brow lines had the best scores for Injury avoidance. However, this doesn't factor in the +3 Gifted defense.
  • It is very difficult to put concrete value on the 3 Gifted defense, but the impact of the +3 defense will be greater the higher the unit's defense stat is due to the nature of increasing returns from high defense. There's also the + Skill that Gifted offers.
  • The Assassin set is the new go-to Nimble option should you be able to acquire them.

Thanks for reading.

To see an analysis with attachments, please refer to the following link:
Nimble With Attachments Calculations
Last edited by turtle225; 17 Jan, 2021 @ 9:35pm
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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments
w.f.schepel 21 Jan, 2020 @ 4:49pm 
Thanks. :-)

msunavygrad 21 Jan, 2020 @ 4:52pm 
Gifted is the perk that keep on giving......
deducter 21 Jan, 2020 @ 5:12pm 
Nice calculations as always.

However, Steel Brow gets bonus points for roleplaying purposes, since it makes that brother into a complete badass. Who among us hasn't dreamed of making a completely bald guy after seeing a sergeant for the first time?

For example, look at just how incredible this brother looks:
https://i.imgur.com/oZQHs7M.jpg
w.f.schepel 21 Jan, 2020 @ 5:17pm 
Originally posted by deducter:
Nice calculations as always.

However, Steel Brow gets bonus points for roleplaying purposes, since it makes that brother into a complete badass. Who among us hasn't dreamed of making a completely bald guy after seeing a sergeant for the first time?

For example, look at just how incredible this brother looks:
https://i.imgur.com/oZQHs7M.jpg

I haven't. Guys without head protection look like idiots to me. I have forgotten the exact source, but there is a piece of wisdom from the early Medieval times that goes roughly like this: if one is surprised and needs to fight, and can only pick up the one piece of armour, one should ALWAYS take the helmet.
suejak 21 Jan, 2020 @ 5:28pm 
Last name is Badass, how legit is that.

Cool thread as always, Turtle :)
MagnusGrey 21 Jan, 2020 @ 10:57pm 
Originally posted by w.f.schepel:
Originally posted by deducter:
Nice calculations as always.

However, Steel Brow gets bonus points for roleplaying purposes, since it makes that brother into a complete badass. Who among us hasn't dreamed of making a completely bald guy after seeing a sergeant for the first time?

For example, look at just how incredible this brother looks:
https://i.imgur.com/oZQHs7M.jpg

I haven't. Guys without head protection look like idiots to me. I have forgotten the exact source, but there is a piece of wisdom from the early Medieval times that goes roughly like this: if one is surprised and needs to fight, and can only pick up the one piece of armour, one should ALWAYS take the helmet.

This game has always secretly been a helmet safety PSA.
Last edited by MagnusGrey; 21 Jan, 2020 @ 10:57pm
Abel 22 Jan, 2020 @ 2:58am 
Interesting, thanks! Gifted has pretty good value.
Your sets all comprise an item that can only be bought, right? I never buy any. What would be the next best thing? 105/95?

Helmet-less challenge! I would like that.
turtle225 22 Jan, 2020 @ 8:37am 
Originally posted by msunavygrad:
Gifted is the perk that keep on giving......

Originally posted by Abel:
Interesting, thanks! Gifted has pretty good value.

I've always liked Gifted. It makes me sad when people discredit it as "just stats" when about a third of the perks are just stats. I think it is a respectable defensive perk for Nimble.

Brow on the other hand I've been vocal about my dislike of it, but if these tests are something to go by then maybe it is roughly close to Gifted in value for Nimble units, so maybe Brow is fine.

Neither are winning any awards, but they are ok.

Originally posted by deducter:
Nice calculations as always.

However, Steel Brow gets bonus points for roleplaying purposes, since it makes that brother into a complete badass. Who among us hasn't dreamed of making a completely bald guy after seeing a sergeant for the first time?

For example, look at just how incredible this brother looks:
https://i.imgur.com/oZQHs7M.jpg

I do like the look of the Sergeants. Bandana and Necro Hat can look good too I think.

Originally posted by Abel:
Your sets all comprise an item that can only be bought, right? I never buy any. What would be the next best thing? 105/95?

Yeah 105/95 is a fine and easy to deploy option. 105/115 or 90/115 are also options you can find. I use 105/115 a lot in my games, though I haven't crunched numbers to know if that's the best choice. I just like the look of Chainmail better than L.Lamellar. There's also 160/80 if you have a high hp count and find some Zwei hats.

Originally posted by MagnusGrey:
This game has always secretly been a helmet safety PSA.

Devs exposed.
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Date Posted: 21 Jan, 2020 @ 1:55pm
Posts: 8