Cheating AI? :: Gems of War General Discussions

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andrew [developer] 4 Dec, 2014 @ 9:37pm

Cheating AI?

Whether the AI cheats or not is a major talking point of Gems of War.

Here are out thoughts on the AI...

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We do NOT make the AI cheat, or purposely give the AI an advantage. We never did with the original Puzzle Quests, we never will with Gems of War.

The gem drops for the AI are using the exact same probability as the player. The only cases where this is different is for new players (under level 15) where we actually make sure the AI doesn't get too many lucky drops (see patch notes 1.0.2 http://gemsofwar.com/patch-notes-1-0-2/)

The AI should have the same luck as you, but of course there are still times where it gets lucky. Sometimes when I'm playing I see the AI make 3 or 4 4-of-a-kinds in a row and I feel like it's cheating, even though I know it isn't.

You can read more about our findings with recall bias here: http://gemsofwar.com/forums/topic/cascades-and-shuffles/#post-1043

Last edited by andrew; 10 Dec, 2014 @ 2:38pm

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Showing 1-15 of 521 comments

Ace_Kayo 4 Dec, 2014 @ 10:19pm

Ya, because this has to be pinned will make me or others believe it. I have seen wayyy too many 4 chained combos against AI that don't even use gem altering moves, and I have played plenty to know that this "luck" is pretty warped. Untill the AI gets a tweak, I'll continue to musle my way through the AI with good troops (which is why it seems to be like this in the first place).

Edit: given IF the AI doesn't "cheat" it sure as heck plays perfectly after level 15. Like TOO perfect most of the time, guessing its own RNG for gem drops and etc. So even if it doesn't cheat like you say it does, the AI is akin to Deep Blue in Chess, and it all comes down to troops. So yes, it is still a problem no matter what you say, and that is why you are getting so many discussions about it; it IS a problem.

Last edited by Ace_Kayo; 4 Dec, 2014 @ 10:32pm

Tacet the Terror

5 Dec, 2014 @ 1:05am

Easiest way to deal with ai is to kite them into 3x skull moves that benefit you and to delay their abilities. They seem to always go for 3x skulls after taking all 4x+ or casting (order priority I think is 4x+ skulls, 4x+ mana, 3x skulls, ability, standard 3x mana), which can be used to setup 4x+ for yourself. Since they take 4x+ first, you can also setup a 4x under a 3x skull that moves the 3x skull out, making them unable to attack.

d-_-b

5 Dec, 2014 @ 4:52am

Game without luck isn't a game:D

az4a3l 5 Dec, 2014 @ 6:46am

Its just incredibly odd when you are doing chains vs AI at the top of the board the AI will manage get 3 skull horizontal, and if there a single skull also at the top the AI with get the extra skull chain, magically..

milknorf1469 has Gems of War

5 Dec, 2014 @ 7:02am

Originally posted by Ace_Kayo:
Edit: given IF the AI doesn't "cheat" it sure as heck plays perfectly after level 15. Like TOO perfect most of the time, guessing its own RNG for gem drops and etc. So even if it doesn't cheat like you say it does, the AI is akin to Deep Blue in Chess, and it all comes down to troops. So yes, it is still a problem no matter what you say, and that is why you are getting so many discussions about it; it IS a problem.

I have to say this describes the problem perfectly if the AI isn't cheeting. It is just too good too fast. It never makes a mistake, and seems to plan it's moves out perfectly at the lowest of levels. This forces me to have to spend time to study the board and plan each move with way more intensity than I want, and I am only on the second kingdom.

The effort I have to put into the game to even have a chance to survive is no longer worth it if I am not enjoying myself. Congrats, your game wins and I no longer want to play it anymore.

Last edited by milknorf1469; 5 Dec, 2014 @ 7:03am

RogueSeraph257 has Gems of War

5 Dec, 2014 @ 7:33am

yeah, I had the AI get me in a boss battle where it hit me with a 4, 5, L(3 down, 3 across) and 2 more 4s, plus a couple 3 skulls just to rub it in. I wish I had been recording it, because honestly, I wouldnt believe it if it hadnt happened to me.

En9a9e

5 Dec, 2014 @ 8:46am

Thanks Andrew for the clarification...and to the rest of you jokers, l2p. ;) Luck is always a part of the game (part of the reason it is super fun and super harsh at times) and of course the AI is going to take advantage of a lucky drop...the same as you would if you simply take the time to look before moving.

Last edited by En9a9e; 5 Dec, 2014 @ 8:53am

Guns

5 Dec, 2014 @ 9:24am

Why we need to pay to fight no sens remove it and your game is better than herthstone dude.

Change it quickly and do more advertising on steam

Last edited by Guns; 5 Dec, 2014 @ 9:25am

Tacet the Terror

5 Dec, 2014 @ 1:29pm

Originally posted by Guns:
Why we need to pay to fight no sens remove it and your game is better than herthstone dude.

Change it quickly and do more advertising on steam

This system is in place to promote better playing vs the ai. It is possible to profit off of any match by getting enough 4x+ and/or abilities. PvP also gives profit as long as you win about 50-70% depending on how much you combo and your level.

Also, they need to make money somehow.

Hedgehog

5 Dec, 2014 @ 3:36pm

Today I saw an AI knight clear a line and there were 5 skulls in a row in new line :D Happened just once, but the amount of combos is pretty high still. I've been using tips for a long time to know which move NOT to use or to be most carefull about (fun to wait for AI to use it instead and then get the sweet combos). I don't think that the hint thing is cheating though, if You play against the AI, why would You listen to its advice...

The combos that drop from top are pretty instane though, an idea that would stop all threads about cheating is to add a way to see what block will be falling from the top, like 2-3 closest lines. Then there won't be any question whether AI cheats or not since all the coming stuff would be transparrent.

Last edited by Hedgehog; 5 Dec, 2014 @ 3:37pm

#10

whoners

5 Dec, 2014 @ 3:41pm

Funny thing is I thought I was NUTS for thinking the game was cheating me, or SUPER lucky. Nope, guess I'm not alone. Of course the game designer is gonna say it's not rigged. It's rigged like hell so you can use REAL cash to play. Great game, but the fact the AI wins WAYYY too much and they give you SOOO FEW coins to play makes this game a snorefest.

#11

En9a9e

5 Dec, 2014 @ 6:35pm

Originally posted by whoners:
Funny thing is I thought I was NUTS for thinking the game was cheating me, or SUPER lucky. Nope, guess I'm not alone. Of course the game designer is gonna say it's not rigged. It's rigged like hell so you can use REAL cash to play. Great game, but the fact the AI wins WAYYY too much and they give you SOOO FEW coins to play makes this game a snorefest.

Doing my best to restrain from writing a slew of sarcastic comments that come to mind when I read posts like this, but in deference to your apparent struggles with general game mechanics I will give you a helpful tip. They actually dumbed down the AI for this...watch for vertical match fours seperated by a single gem in the middle. The AI doesn't take these in to account even when they can use a match three or a skill to drop it down.

#12

Soulgain

5 Dec, 2014 @ 7:21pm

Originally posted by En9a9e:
Doing my best to restrain from writing a slew of sarcastic comments that come to mind when I read posts like this, but in deference to your apparent struggles with general game mechanics I will give you a helpful tip. They actually dumbed down the AI for this...watch for vertical match fours seperated by a single gem in the middle. The AI doesn't take these in to account even when they can use a match three or a skill to drop it down.

QFT, AI is rather dumb.

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To DEVs:
I really doubt that you can make them believe that AI isn't cheating, sadly. You will be seeing these walls of ignorance forever.

Last edited by Soulgain; 5 Dec, 2014 @ 7:58pm

#13