Diposting pertama kali oleh Dumblenutz!:

I'm much too new to really opinate on "end game" problems like running out of things to do, but personally i've really enjoyed the social aspect of it (which i presume is the main point of the game) and the interactions you have with others whilist you're both just trying to go about your business or pursue your own ambitious goals. I don't think that part's ever gonna go away granted that the community doesn't significantly change negatively.

I can only see it get better if the devs implement more areas, fates and options for things to do, which will only be a means to further interact with players in different ways.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dumblenutz!:

I'm much too new to really opinate on "end game" problems like running out of things to do, but personally i've really enjoyed the social aspect of it (which i presume is the main point of the game) and the interactions you have with others whilist you're both just trying to go about your business or pursue your own ambitious goals. I don't think that part's ever gonna go away granted that the community doesn't significantly change negatively.

I can only see it get better if the devs implement more areas, fates and options for things to do, which will only be a means to further interact with players in different ways.

The issue is that there's no reason to pick specifically this game over e.g. Gmod or GTA RP, if the roleplay and social aspect is all that's keeping you here. Hell, you could find some anime discord server and get the same kick. There are a number of aspects that shape player interactions, even if you don't directly witness or interact with them - the fact that the prole you're talking to has been mugged and stabbed twice in the last hour, or the banker is a "kill the banker" PTSD-riddled veteran and is skittish to even get close to you, or the Zealot has been shielded by the proles in an earlier firefight and drops you a random frommer, for no immediately apparent reason. It is difficult to (intentionally) add these things, and easy to remove them, which is what I believe is happening now. Once there are constraints on everything, it becomes basically working together - and then I might as well do that and get paid lots of real money instead of a handful of fake one.

First they came for Mr. Hitler, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a Nazi;
Then they came for the thieves, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a thief;
Then they came for the shop pushers, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a griefer;
Then there was no game left to play, and I went on to play something else.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

The developers act in good faith, but all recent reworks are making the game more annoying and less fun. I have tried extensively to find ways to have fun, and have found none, except this evening, when some Cortex troglodyte was playing with his girlfriend and lost 20-30 cytes over me pushing her, which was very entertaining for a couple of minutes.
This is not the gameplay the devs want and this is not the gameplay I want, but it is what I have.

There are people who play "by the rules" and people who do not. This does not mean cheating, DDOSing and alleging things about a moderator's past; it means playing the game in the way they prefer, "emergent gameplay" shall we call it, where the fun is had by winning the game according to one's own rules. Some people are very happy to grind their asses off for a whole day, become limitator, and starve to death because there is no money to earn unless you're limitbaiting; other people are very happy to find stuff on the ground and do something creative with it. I am the second category, and I am sure there are plenty of others like me who had fun with this game - back when you still had options to prole around, instead of being forced to work.

Metalworks stealing has been almost completely patched out of the game. Now, it has been replaced by ration stealing, which is twice as annoying for everyone involved (the thief has few options to react when attacked and the victim is completely helpless). We used to call laundry a noob trap; now it is one of the best employments; I haven't ran the numbers, but it's probably better than distillery and ration factory. I had a lot of fun stealing at metalworks and at distillery. Now I can't anymore. This upsets me for a number of reasons, but the first and foremost, is that if I want to get a job, I will go ahead and get a job, instead of spending 10€ on a Steam game. Want to be a scumbag? You still need to grind 50 ingots, and scumbag is doomed to starving to death underground either way, because it takes so long to make guns. Plus, a scumbag is permanently limited, which limits gameplay opportunities. A studio called "vellocet" should understand this, and in fact, they appeared to encourage it, which is why I bought the game.

Listening to the community and compromising your vision will not bring anything good to the game. People will throw tantrums and spew their gugu-gaga-mentality all over the forums and threads. Listening to them will bring the game to the same end Sea of Thieves made - a profitable one, but more morally disgusting than all griefing and cheating you can think of. Aneurism IV is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ roleplay game, but people buy it because it is different in one regard, in that it allows players to actually do stuff and deal with consequences, not hardcoded limitations and god-sanctioned punishments.

Making it into gmod pve dystopia simulator will kill the game - because you are not in the same market niche anymore, and there are better products that do that.

Understand that the people who grief are customers who are frustrated with the state of the product, and putting bandaid solutions limiting their in-game abilities will just dissatisfy them even more with their purchase. "That's good, we don't want them anyway!" - those words have been said by plenty of people who went bankrupt shortly thereafter. If I had Vellocet stocks, I'd be selling them.

Is this game raw, experimental and unafraid? Or is this game a farm for youtuber clips and reddit updoots? This is an identity conflict that must be resolved, and it will not be resolved by implementing random features, or "addressing" random "problems" as they are requested and brought up. Devs have shown creativity with their solutions, so this is not a development issue - it is an issue of management and long-term vision.

I will keep playing if I find a way to have fun. If I can't, then I'll be off to playing something else. I will not waste my time whacking metal with a pipe for 10% cytes while two brits giggle about the last haha lefunny subreddit post.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dumblenutz!:

I'm much too new to really opinate on "end game" problems like running out of things to do, but personally i've really enjoyed the social aspect of it (which i presume is the main point of the game) and the interactions you have with others whilist you're both just trying to go about your business or pursue your own ambitious goals. I don't think that part's ever gonna go away granted that the community doesn't significantly change negatively.

I can only see it get better if the devs implement more areas, fates and options for things to do, which will only be a means to further interact with players in different ways.

The issue is that there's no reason to pick specifically this game over e.g. Gmod or GTA RP, if the roleplay and social aspect is all that's keeping you here. Hell, you could find some anime discord server and get the same kick. There are a number of aspects that shape player interactions, even if you don't directly witness or interact with them - the fact that the prole you're talking to has been mugged and stabbed twice in the last hour, or the banker is a "kill the banker" PTSD-riddled veteran and is skittish to even get close to you, or the Zealot has been shielded by the proles in an earlier firefight and drops you a random frommer, for no immediately apparent reason. It is difficult to (intentionally) add these things, and easy to remove them, which is what I believe is happening now. Once there are constraints on everything, it becomes basically working together - and then I might as well do that and get paid lots of real money instead of a handful of fake one.

First they came for Mr. Hitler, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a Nazi;
Then they came for the thieves, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a thief;
Then they came for the shop pushers, and I didn't speak - because I wasn't a griefer;
Then there was no game left to play, and I went on to play something else.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr Six, corgi battlemaster:

Sorry to hijack your thread. I'm considering buying this game, and one of your concerns clearly seems to be that this game is too tedious. Could you give me a sense of just how much time is spent on menial activities? And are they really *that* prolonged and uneventful? I'd also ask about the developers' track record in addressing issues like this, but I don't suppose the game has been out for long enough.

Diposting pertama kali oleh BrokenBuck:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

The developers act in good faith, but all recent reworks are making the game more annoying and less fun. I have tried extensively to find ways to have fun, and have found none, except this evening, when some Cortex troglodyte was playing with his girlfriend and lost 20-30 cytes over me pushing her, which was very entertaining for a couple of minutes.
This is not the gameplay the devs want and this is not the gameplay I want, but it is what I have.

There are people who play "by the rules" and people who do not. This does not mean cheating, DDOSing and alleging things about a moderator's past; it means playing the game in the way they prefer, "emergent gameplay" shall we call it, where the fun is had by winning the game according to one's own rules. Some people are very happy to grind their asses off for a whole day, become limitator, and starve to death because there is no money to earn unless you're limitbaiting; other people are very happy to find stuff on the ground and do something creative with it. I am the second category, and I am sure there are plenty of others like me who had fun with this game - back when you still had options to prole around, instead of being forced to work.

Metalworks stealing has been almost completely patched out of the game. Now, it has been replaced by ration stealing, which is twice as annoying for everyone involved (the thief has few options to react when attacked and the victim is completely helpless). We used to call laundry a noob trap; now it is one of the best employments; I haven't ran the numbers, but it's probably better than distillery and ration factory. I had a lot of fun stealing at metalworks and at distillery. Now I can't anymore. This upsets me for a number of reasons, but the first and foremost, is that if I want to get a job, I will go ahead and get a job, instead of spending 10€ on a Steam game. Want to be a scumbag? You still need to grind 50 ingots, and scumbag is doomed to starving to death underground either way, because it takes so long to make guns. Plus, a scumbag is permanently limited, which limits gameplay opportunities. A studio called "vellocet" should understand this, and in fact, they appeared to encourage it, which is why I bought the game.

Listening to the community and compromising your vision will not bring anything good to the game. People will throw tantrums and spew their gugu-gaga-mentality all over the forums and threads. Listening to them will bring the game to the same end Sea of Thieves made - a profitable one, but more morally disgusting than all griefing and cheating you can think of. Aneurism IV is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ roleplay game, but people buy it because it is different in one regard, in that it allows players to actually do stuff and deal with consequences, not hardcoded limitations and god-sanctioned punishments.

Making it into gmod pve dystopia simulator will kill the game - because you are not in the same market niche anymore, and there are better products that do that.

Understand that the people who grief are customers who are frustrated with the state of the product, and putting bandaid solutions limiting their in-game abilities will just dissatisfy them even more with their purchase. "That's good, we don't want them anyway!" - those words have been said by plenty of people who went bankrupt shortly thereafter. If I had Vellocet stocks, I'd be selling them.

Is this game raw, experimental and unafraid? Or is this game a farm for youtuber clips and reddit updoots? This is an identity conflict that must be resolved, and it will not be resolved by implementing random features, or "addressing" random "problems" as they are requested and brought up. Devs have shown creativity with their solutions, so this is not a development issue - it is an issue of management and long-term vision.

I will keep playing if I find a way to have fun. If I can't, then I'll be off to playing something else. I will not waste my time whacking metal with a pipe for 10% cytes while two brits giggle about the last haha lefunny subreddit post.

I'm going to go point by point on stuff I have things to say on.

The victim in ration thieving does have counterplay while it's happening, it's just not consistent counterplay which will guarantee their ration doesn't get stolen. The best play to avoid being a victim of ration thieving is simply not getting your ration at the same time as everyone else where people are trying to steal rations. I think the actual problem with ration thieving isn't that you can do it, I think that's fine, the problem is that ECO is horrible so it sucks to take the hit to put them down and because there's no respawn timer after death they just come back within like 30s basically guaranteed if they're actually decent at navigating the map with B while a skeleton. Metalworks griefing being patched out is fine, and many people aren't aware you can grab your ore after placing it down and beat it into an ingot without anybody being able to interrupt it. You can still grief the mines as well.

Laundry is absolutely not better than metalworks or distillery idk what crack you're smoking bro.

The only time it takes long to make guns or there is any risk of starving as a scumbag is if there are heaps of other scum on. Once there's like 8+ scum on playing as scum starts to really ♥♥♥♥ because the respawn timers aren't fast enough to accommodate that many people as scum, especially in the subway area where you get trash goods that are important like glue and machine trinkets.

I grief in this game for two reasons, the first is that it's incredibly fun and has created some of my most memorable moments in the game. The second is that some of the ways I would grief are problems that I see in the game and don't think you should be able to grief in those ways so in my eyes by griefing people in those ways it's basically raising awareness and making it a bigger issue in the hopes that it gets noticed and patched. I'm speaking particularly on being able to grab laundry out the sides of the machines and being able to insta drink booze that somebody has just bottled even though you can't keep it which is just a full proof unpreventable way to deny the guy trying to brew his booze and wasting his time.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr Six, corgi battlemaster:

Sorry to hijack your thread. I'm considering buying this game, and one of your concerns clearly seems to be that this game is too tedious. Could you give me a sense of just how much time is spent on menial activities? And are they really *that* prolonged and uneventful? I'd also ask about the developers' track record in addressing issues like this, but I don't suppose the game has been out for long enough.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Flesh:

It's funny, I was going to make a post tonight but holy crap this covered all the bases.

My biggest issue is that I joined when doctormaxing was a thing, and now the game feels like an actual job. I get the devs probably intended it to be this way, but i don't have the time or patience to sit here and grind a game like it's a MMO. I thought this was going to evolve into maybe a 30 minute grind max to get into the good stuff, now it's like you said, a full day of grinding only to starve unless you thieve or troll. Whole game is a mess, and I think there are a lot of voices coming from all sides, and it seems they are just making the worst decisions. Honestly it feels like they limited cyte gain to pad the game out and make the grind way heavier, which isn't fun.

It's not fun having to grind for hours while also being trolled constantly. I didn't mind the trolling, the RDMs, the thefts when cyte gain was fast, but now it's just annoying and a waste of time. Would rather play ANYTHING else when my loop is broken like that with so much invested.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

Diposting pertama kali oleh BrokenBuck:

I'm going to go point by point on stuff I have things to say on.

The victim in ration thieving does have counterplay while it's happening, it's just not consistent counterplay which will guarantee their ration doesn't get stolen. The best play to avoid being a victim of ration thieving is simply not getting your ration at the same time as everyone else where people are trying to steal rations. I think the actual problem with ration thieving isn't that you can do it, I think that's fine, the problem is that ECO is horrible so it sucks to take the hit to put them down and because there's no respawn timer after death they just come back within like 30s basically guaranteed if they're actually decent at navigating the map with B while a skeleton. Metalworks griefing being patched out is fine, and many people aren't aware you can grab your ore after placing it down and beat it into an ingot without anybody being able to interrupt it. You can still grief the mines as well.

Laundry is absolutely not better than metalworks or distillery idk what crack you're smoking bro.

The only time it takes long to make guns or there is any risk of starving as a scumbag is if there are heaps of other scum on. Once there's like 8+ scum on playing as scum starts to really ♥♥♥♥ because the respawn timers aren't fast enough to accommodate that many people as scum, especially in the subway area where you get trash goods that are important like glue and machine trinkets.

I grief in this game for two reasons, the first is that it's incredibly fun and has created some of my most memorable moments in the game. The second is that some of the ways I would grief are problems that I see in the game and don't think you should be able to grief in those ways so in my eyes by griefing people in those ways it's basically raising awareness and making it a bigger issue in the hopes that it gets noticed and patched. I'm speaking particularly on being able to grab laundry out the sides of the machines and being able to insta drink booze that somebody has just bottled even though you can't keep it which is just a full proof unpreventable way to deny the guy trying to brew his booze and wasting his time.

My argument for ration thieving is that it's objectively less fun than metalworks thieving. If you get caught doing it, you're stuck in a small room with hordes of proles, controllers and limitators that will prevent you from leaving, and if you receive it, you really have no way of getting your ration back, unlike metal which at least you could kill the thief and get the ingots back, even though it's a stupid thing to do. Something you felt entitled to disappears into thin air, people get massively upset which is funny, but how long until eating/drinking gets patched too? So far for metalworks the closest thing I've found is that you can just take the ore from the furnace (either with grab or with keep if they're early), but it's truly a shadow of the golden times. Mines are cool but it was never the first option.

I've tried playing scum a number of times and I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but I tend to end up with a heap of old ammo or old gun parts, which is fine, except I'm always missing a single item (usually gunpowder) which can't be found in the whole server for hours despite me running around all the time to check stashes. Playing cortex is basically being a prole with a gun you can't use and barely does anything unless you take the time to go limitator. Sanitar is abhorrent.

I grief to have fun at the expense of people who take themselves too seriously and to avoid working like a slave for cytes. It's not the only way I have fun, but random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is the only way I play prole. I've started mugging bankers and dealers for credits and they are very generous, but cytes I have to work for, which I really don't like. The issue I am afraid of seeing, is that the devs will listen to the whining and moaning as soon as it comes from a certain amount of voices, and will remove "bad things" from the game without understanding why the issues arose in the first place, so that the game becomes an MMO farmslop with absolutely no stepping out of line permitted. It's the convenient and PR-safe option and so far I haven't seen them step away from this course of action.

Diposting pertama kali oleh Count Barabulestein:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Dr Six, corgi battlemaster:

Sorry to hijack your thread. I'm considering buying this game, and one of your concerns clearly seems to be that this game is too tedious. Could you give me a sense of just how much time is spent on menial activities? And are they really *that* prolonged and uneventful? I'd also ask about the developers' track record in addressing issues like this, but I don't suppose the game has been out for long enough.

Depending on your expectations, it can be a good experience as a new player. I've been in the loop for a while (just after doctormaxxing got patched) and from my perspective, it has become tedious and unfun. I wouldn't say uneventful, stuff happens all the time, it's just nothing you are encouraged to care about or you can profit from. If you just want a couple of 'cytes to go doctor or liquidator, you can farm them in a single wartime (even though that has been nerfed too), but if you want the big guys, you better prepare to spend a whole day in the metalworks. Scum being 5 amne instead of 3 also doesn't help, in my book, because if you want to respawn as scum once that's already 10 cytes spent on a varying amount of gameplay and fun.

The times are such:
Run to the metalworks; grab a pipe; run to the mine (10-15 seconds);
Whack a boulder 24 times with a pipe; repeat at least twice (one ore and one coal);
Run back to the smelter; wait for it to heat up (10-30 seconds, no idea of the times);
Put ore inside; whack it another 24 times; drag it to the quencher and grab the finished product; put it in the crate.
That's for 10% of an anamnecyte. Assume you'll want 5-10 whole ones to play a decently fun role.