I'm sympathetic to people who buy games to have fun.

Low pop is a problem for everyone.

Just let them die several times - and they will listen to your advices.
But i disagree about Ace-Assault. In good hands it is pretty useful build - see metriod games, for example. I don't think it is helpful for droppod on aet but it seems working on droppoding sol/vet. If termi got smg and skills i see a profit in taking ace to use all available ups to boost team's damage

Man, with OP's like this, its hard to imagine why the playerbase is dwindling...

Originally posted by OneoftheLost:

Man, with OP's like this, its hard to imagine why the playerbase is dwindling...

Okay, go host 20 veteran difficulty games, fast mode, primary & secondary mission on. Then lead 7 new players. Win at least one vet game.

When you have hosted the game, your team must have the following builds:-

-Marksman takes Stinger, LAW, canister shell, marauder, tac net, concealment device.
-Hellfire taking an ACE-43 with 3x movespeed boosters, optimizer, napalm wall, burst fire device.
-Medic takes chem bomb, crit, steroids, neutralizer (no healing skills),
-Heavy Support with Wired armor, HSLF, Suppressive Fire Device, Safeguard.
-Assault running on 3x Ailment booster, takes ACE-43. grenade launcher module, combat knife, vanguard, combat stims. Use Hollow point ammo.
-Terminator with triple evasion boosters, vindicator, armor nanites, energy discharge, energy shield, vapor exhaust.
-Demo takes LAW, LAW skill, Sentry Drone, Crit, Seismic resonator skill.
-Recon takes whatever he likes.

If you do win 1 out of 20 vet games with this set up I will delete this thread, offer an apology and have the developer reset my rank to Private. But of course you have to show evidence in form of video if you manage to accomplish such a feat.

Yeah, keep up with that attitude Jurgorn, and you won't have ANYONE to play with.

Originally posted by Sergeant_Braken:

Yeah, keep up with that attitude Jurgorn, and you won't have ANYONE to play with.

Doesn't compute. I can't recall Jurgorn ever having trouble to find a group withing minutes since he arrived.

Originally posted by Sergeant_Braken:

Yeah, keep up with that attitude Jurgorn, and you won't have ANYONE to play with.

You have to understand on Veteran / Aetriden games teamplay becomes a necessity. The difficulty skyrockets from your average Recruit / Soldier games. You find that you cannot gun down a Slasher on your own anymore. They have 4500-5000 health with 80 resist vs HP ammo / 50 resist vs FMJ. On Assault class even if you are critting at 400 damage per shot on FMJ. That is 400/50% = 200 damage dealt. 5000/200 = 25 critical strikes to kill one Slasher. Good luck killing it with Hollow Point ammunition you will probabably need 60+ crits.

In most cases, when I tell a newbie Assault who joins my Vet difficulty game to use FMJ ammo he refuses to do so. Then the next new guy shows up playing a combat medic class not taking the essential medical skills to help the team. It doesn't stop here the list goes on...

On recruit or soldier I wouldn't care because its the difficulty set for players who want to have a fun & relaxing game.

The issue lies with newbies (eg. rank 5) joining a high difficulty game and wants to play John Rambo style. Now tell me would you like to play with someone who refuses to communicate, disregards teamplay & flips you off for giving helpful advice on a high difficulty game?

I mean why join a high difficulty game when you are a new player then you chastise veterans who are trying to teach you =/

Originally posted by SubtleCruelty:

Why is this thread still in the suggestions section?

It has been mention a few times already how negative this is and it's detrimental to first impression.

Even the only mod post did nothing to bring constructive feedback.

The issue isn't with newbies. It's with people telling them how to play a game they have put less than 100 hours in to. Let them learn on their own and offer feedback when they ask.

This should be move to off-topic..

And just like every other casual you sweep the elitist argument aside and proclaim yourself victorious, all in the name of fun and happiness.

You want to have fun go play Recruit & Soldier difficulty.

You join a high difficulty lobby then you whine about this and that because you can't play your selfish build. As host & leader I have the responsibility to see the team through the game. That includes making sure we have the right skill sets to beat the game.

Maybe your definition of fun is play veteran difficulty and repeatedly die at wave 15 because we didn't have the firepower to deal with the sheer amount of high threats that are being thrown at us.

When I see a newbie play Marksman and he grabs Stinger + LAW on veteran difficulty. I know he now has 3.6 movespeed (crippled). So I should ignore his build and let him die in the first 3 waves? Then I have to commandeer the medic in my team to plant and defend the lifedrone for 3 minutes. He revives then launches an accidental danger close LAW rocket on a team mate trying to kill some swarmers. Now I have to spend another 3 minutes reviving another team mate.

Where is the logic? Don't you think that Marksman is selfish? I have to bring the entire team to defend the lifedrone for a useless deadweight. In the mean time, mission progress is halted and by the time we do the mission we get mobbed inside a small building and everyone dies.

You have never hosted a veteran game. Neither have you lead a team successfully through anything other than soldier game. So until you do so you won't understand the point i'm trying to make.

Originally posted by SubtleCruelty:

No. I Just think they need to play the game more to grasp the concept of what builds work well and which don't. The average play time for someone to get this in 300+ hours.

You do agree with me that they lack experience and they have no clue what they are doing. Hence the need to spend more time learning the ropes. Until they have accumulated enough experience & appropriate skill level don't join veteran / aetriden games.

Noobs come in to these high difficulty game with sole purpose of gaining experience at the expense of other veteran players. They teamkill, hoard items, do not use support items, do not listen to instructions, avoid teamwork, start going full cowboy on everyone, dying repeatedly.

Best of all you don't think that is selfish? Oh apparently screwing up other people's game is considered fun because "I" need to learn. There are other venues for you to learn such as Soldier difficulty games.

Why do you insist of joining a veteran game when you are new and have no experience whatsoever?

Ask any newbies who played single player campaign for the first time. Did they play it on Brutal, Hardcore, Aetriden settings? Because it seems to me your logic is they should as they would learn "better, faster & have more fun in the process"

We should have a poll on this:-

1. If you have no / lack experience as a new comer would you start playing TRS on Aetriden Difficulty in Military map?

Jurgon please be less narrow minded:

You want to play a serious game, on a high difficulty. If a new player joins in he might ruin the game and is overall unhelpfull and annoying. Everyone gets that, it is annoying.

But you have to see this out of the perspective of the new players, several of them played games like Alien Swarm on the highest difficulties or completed the first missions in the campaign on high difficulties, or on the opposite played games with laughable easy difficulties.
Hell they might even have cleared recruit in their build and assume that vet is only a little harder since there are modifiers that are supposed to make it a lot harder (you know ... like how it should be supposed to work)
Joining in on a new game and then trying Veteran difficulty is just an obvious choice for them.
They have no clue what they are doing wrong and some of them don't want to be shoved around by someone.(You can try, you can kick, no probs)

Here comes the critical part:
Instead of understanding this and appreciating what little new players join the community you are making a thread which in the very first sentence titles them "crackheads [that] can't even do high school basic mathematics"

Here is some Kindergarten mathematic for you
If Moral Value of: "Just let them die and wait till they beg for you'r advice">You
You=♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

Meh, they probably only joining cause the only lobby up is a vet+ game.
Can't do anything about that.

And sure, new folk can feel entitled and stuff, but there is only so much people can deal with... and after the umphteenth time of not getting anywhere cause of deadrambo/teamkill/ignorance from people giving an attitude... yea.
You've gotta weigh in the fun/effort for the older players trying to get a vet+ game done too. Kinda like a 'me' time.

Originally posted by Cool3303:

You want to play a serious game, on a high difficulty. If a new player joins in he might ruin the game and is overall unhelpfull and annoying. Everyone gets that, it is annoying.

Joining in on a new game and then trying Veteran difficulty is just an obvious choice for them.
They have no clue what they are doing wrong and some of them don't want to be shoved around by someone.(You can try, you can kick, no probs)

Yeah you don't think I spend 30 minutes warning them about Veteran difficulty? Teaching them the proper builds and how to survive. Instead I get immature players like you who tell's me to "F off" because he knows better. I don't kick new players unless they continue to be stubborn and refuse to adhere towards teamplay.

Originally posted by Cool3303:

Here comes the critical part:
Instead of understanding this and appreciating what little new players join the community you are making a thread which in the very first sentence titles them "crackheads [that] can't even do high school basic mathematics"

Here's my critical part:
1. You are just like one of those newbies who are stubborn.
2. You don't care about other players.
3. You want to ruin other people's game.
4. You are inconsiderate you never put the team first. What about the other 7 players? Ever think about them? It's always ME ME ME ME ME. Just because you paid for the game that doesn't entitle you to VIP status so you can ♥♥♥♥ on everyone. I paid for the game too. Start thinking about others in the team who wants to have a proper game. Not evac at wave 9.

I have no qualms playing with newbies, they are always welcome to join my vet games if they are willing to learn and take advice. I had two newbies in my veteran difficulty game once and they didn't die a single time in game nor did they do anything to endanger the rest of the team. It was a flawless game because they were WILLING TO LEARN.

If i'm such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I would have kicked every player Rank 1 to 15 that came in new. Its frustrating when you get selfish players who don't care about the team.

Originally posted by Zangi:

And sure, new folk can feel entitled and stuff, but there is only so much people can deal with... and after the umphteenth time of not getting anywhere cause of deadrambo/teamkill/ignorance from people giving an attitude... yea.
You've gotta weigh in the fun/effort for the older players trying to get a vet+ game done too. Kinda like a 'me' time.

At least Zangi understands what's it like to host a gazillion vet games only to fail miserably every single time because some newbie decides to put his selfish needs ahead of the team.

Here's some adult advice for you Cool3303:
-Stop being an inconsiderate selfish prick who only cares about having his own fun.
-Always put the team's interest ahead of your own selfish mentality.
-Just because you are the new kid on the block you think you are entitled to a VIP status.
-Think about the other players who paid for the game too.
-If you are clueless, have no experience don't act high & mighty like you have commandereed a team that has beaten Military Aetriden Fast Mode. Instead be humble and start by taking in advice from Veterans.

Vets never shun new players. We want to see them grow just as much as you do. But if you continue with your wise guy self centered egotistical attitude then you'll never learn anything. Stop blaming elitist for not having the patience to help you. Its a team game not "I AM RAMBO"

To everyone: I'm always down for some no holds barred discussion but leave personal insults out if it please. Call elitists prícks, call newbies ignorant, everything fine.

I don't want to close alive discussion posts just because people insult each other personally.

Originally posted by SubtleCruelty:

They just want to enjoy the game and learn as they will (not everyone wants information thrown at them when they are just getting use to the controls)...but some people won't let a person enjoy a video game. Which is in turn just as selfish as, let's say, a Marksman taking stinger and Law.

I see a pattern there. The hypothetical pattern. And not even talking about the thin red line to a hypocrictical pattern.

7 vets in a vet+ multiplayer session who don't want the newcomer, who is still trying to figure out controls, crash their multiplayer game and waste their time (up to an hour per session) because he refuses to adapt in a cooperative game => extremely selfish.

1 newcomer that doesn't want information thrown at him, still trying to figure out the controls joining the multiplayer lobby of a 7 player vet+ game and refusing to adapt in a cooperative game instead of going SP to figure out controls and not get information thrown at him => not selfish for a slightest bit.

It works both ways. You can always create hypothetical scanarios which fortify your argument. But not playing the game on regular basis over months (like Cool3300 and you) and just looking at stat graphs will always leave you afar from the reality that is happening in game.

What i have seen and experienced within the last 18 months of constantly playing the game and being right at the pulse of the community it pretty much boils down to three things:

- Most people don't want to play this coop oriented multiplayer game cooperatively.
- Most people don't like to get told what they should do and bring in higher difficulty games.
- Most people can't endure through advertisy.

Simple reasons why the game won't take off in regards to player count and always be an attraction to hardcore players only. If all the people who moan about low player counts, the few remaining vets being so overly toxic (which isn't true for the most part) and campaigning for more fun and ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles would be playing and hosting the game their way there would be much more lobbys, the vets would be an unheard minority and there wouldn't be low average player counts. So where are all those people? From what i know the game sold way over five figures. Where are all those people? That's why i can't take these arguments serious because it's incredibly silly trying to sell that to interested players out there still asking if the game might be for them.

And as everybody could tell if they just check a few post histories, we just have a few guys that have a hard grudge against the devs and/or one or two players still playing the game trying to bash everything they can everytime the game goes on sale. Aside from that, we're STILL here to bring in new guys and keep the game alive and rolling while everything they do is trying to bury the game and/or hurt Ironward.