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Scoob

2015년 10월 18일 오후 5시 44분

"The Hub" Mission query (Potential Spoilers)

Hi,

Spoilers ahead...

I'm having a little micro-management issue with the Hub mission. I've recaptured The Hub, have survived while the gate was disabled & came back on line etc. and I'm now just building up forces ready to attack. However, there are a couple of problems that are costing me ships:

1. Any transport ships I built (I had a few tagging along in my fleet in case I needed them) have a mind of their own, useful, but not when they venture right into the middle of an enemy base to collect a dropped resource crate - they just die.

2. Any ship of mine that comes in via the Karakum gate flies so far into the sector that they immediately engage the neared enemy base and die, unless I snag them and order them elsewhere when they emerge. Now, I noticed that I can set a way point actually on the gate, so I've done this - requesting that ships assemble behind The Hub station, effectively protecting my resourcing operation. Problem is, any ships coming through appear to ignore this assembly point - either that, or they're too distracted because they emerge so close to an enemy base.

So, regarding point 1, is there any way to turn my transports into cowards? Basically so they'll only collect dropped containers that don't have multiple enemies and an enemy base near by? Sure, if I were to manually order a transport to snag a ware while protecting said transport, that'd be cool, but to have them just fly off and die is a little silly. Possibly I'm missing a setting that might help? Note: I know I can force them to hold position, but then they'd not collect a container right under their noses lol.

Regarding point 2. Assuming the assembly point for the gate is working properly, and it is indeed said ships being distracted due to emerging right near an enemy base, could ships stop a little nearer the gate?

Not huge issues in the scheme of things, though it did take me a while to realise why every ship that came in via the gate died soon after. Obviously once I started listening out for gate traffic notifications, I could enable time dilation and manually order the ships. Saying that though, they do still often engage and die anyway if they get hit.

Note: it's not all ships that fly too far in and engage hostiles, some do manage to start protecting the gate. However these are exclusively faster ships such as fighters, larger ships like Frigates and Corvettes seem to die before they turn around to get back to patrolling around the gate. I've lost several Phalanxes while they simply try to turn around after emerging.

Edit: It looks like the higher mass of the larger ships means they take much longer to slow down after exiting the gate. Something like a Hagar finally stops twice as far away from the gate as say a Perez. I've not once been able to get a ship larger than a Fighter back to my base without it taking fairly significant damage.

Anyway, just a bit of feedback, loving the game still.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Scoob 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2015년 10월 18일 오후 6시 10분

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19개 댓글 중 1-15개 표시

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 18일 오후 7시 49분

There's tons of going on in this mission -

There's a lot of hints and stuff - but they are easy to miss - for example the gate is mined - so that doesn't help large ship survival (mines target larger ships). You either have to co-ordinate a fast strike against the mining platforms - or clear the mines out (using a larger ship heh heh - but you should have learned this in the previous mission) - but really both. This gets mentioned in the mission dialog - but often in games mission dialog is skippable, in this particular case its fairly relevant.

The other key thing in this mission is the "do not engage" "posture" - which means ships won't engage on their own (turrets will still target enemies) this mission is basically a tutorial on using that do not engage posture. Keeping things in formation to defend, then having your chance to strike back.

It will be useful later - etc.

Don't forget that Karakum can build ships too - they tend to be pretty powerful in some cases and it adds capacity :)

There's more stuff and hints - but you seem to be figuring them out.

This is my favorite mission of the game :)

--

Gates are a bit problematic for the issues you mentioned - the gate has been moved back several times in my tweaks of this mission to minimize the issue you describe - so I guess - be glad you didn't play - right at release :)

chaosavy 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2015년 10월 18일 오후 7시 49분

Scoob

2015년 10월 19일 오전 7시 39분

Hi,

I got through the gate just fine, piloted a Perez M to manually take out all installations, before simply drifting the Wardrum past the mines. Total losses = ZERO :) Note: I see that the mines, both the earlier "normal" mines and the latter heat seekers, appear invulnerable to radiation. My initial plan had been to AoE nuke a path to the gate, taking out the mines, but it had no effect so I retreated.

I saw the "do not engage" posture, but I cannot set that prior to the ships arriving from Palm 05 and Karakum of course - I've not really been building ships locally, I use local resources for platform builds mostly.

I've generally been manually ordering ships that arrive to assemble behind The Hub station, so far away from any combat. However, I'm assuming something got through at some point as I lost all but one of my Parked up Phalaxes, as well as my carrier. Not sure how as I generally sit in the tactical view and saw nothing. Thought: is there any way to have a ship or platform blink or otherwise alert the player that it's at low health? It'd be a most helpful addition to get a good tactical picture platform health, even at a glance ship health, so we can manually retreat ships before they die. Secondary thought - Retreat at damage % possible? I find myself micro-managing my fleet to a degree to allow front-line ships the chance to recover.

I actually captured another station last night. All that's left is the one with the mega gun, well, the one that had the mega gun as that's gone too :) Basically the final station should be largely crippled as all static defences are gone, the Hangar is gone and I decimated all defenders. However, in a somewhat surprising twist the station suddenly spat out about 30 assorted ships, effectively replacing all I'd destroyed in moments. I notice enemy stations seem to launch groups of ships quite frequently, where player stations can only do so one at a time. Still, I'd not seen quite this number launched before! I saved for the evening at that point, I had intended to go for the capture, but 30+ enemies suddenly launching sorta put a stop to that idea for now lol.

So, this mission has proven very challenging so far, I lost my Carrier and the Fist of Darwin I'd previously captured. Plus the gate was shut off moments before my mining ships (Harndons?) arrived as well as the resources I'd requested. Basically I had to survive with no ability to build, upgrade or research. Was tempted to restart the mission, knowing I'd lose the gate and reinforcements + resources & plan accordingly, but stuck at it in the end.

Anyway, I should complete my take over of the The Hub sector next session, hopefully no more huge ship launches will come from the remaining station!

Scoob.

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 19일 오전 7시 52분

That - 30 ships launching - is an unintended feature.

Aka a bug - fixed a bunch of these issues but one seems to have slipped through - what happens is that when ships are docking (most likely your Phalanxes) others can't launch so they get queued for later. Somehow you stored up a good number of them, there's code to prevent too many - so maybe it wasn't quite 30?

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 19일 오전 9시 35분

"I've generally been manually ordering ships that arrive to assemble behind The Hub station"

Try this - select the gate/shipyard/base/etc - right click on a ship (the bigger the better).

Ships leaving gate/shipyard/base will now form up with that ship. Now - select that lead ship - then click "do not engage" ships in formation (current and future) will inherit that same posture when they join the formation :) - much less micro management.

There is no - run away at % - it would need a seperate interface and people already complained about it... Plus overall I want ships to be good little soldiers and be predictable and follow orders. Its a bit of a tight rope.

Scoob

2015년 10월 19일 오전 9시 41분

Interestingly, the station that launched the 30 or so ships - really, there were a lot - wasn't the one I'd even attempted to send Phalanxes at yet, only The Hub and the other station. Note: the station I have captured still shows an objective marker to capture it, is this intended?

Regardless, something weird has happened. The remaining enemy station was clear of ships, bar a couple of larger ones which were attacking my ships guarding the station I'd just captured - the Wardrum captured one and destroyed the other. So, no enemy ships patrolling around it. Swarms of my ships were buzzing around having taken out the last of the remaining enemy stations static defences. The odd enemy ships that did launch didn't last long vs. my guys needless to say.

I then started gathering my group of six Phalanxes from behind The Hub station, moving them toward the station I had captured as a staging area. I was also doing some other bits like queuing up a few upgrades for the Wardrum, as well as request resources etc. I then noticed the remaining enemy station appeared to have totally reinforced its self, with lots of ships patrolling it and my own large swarm gone. The tasks I'd been doing while not having visibility of the enemy station couldn't have taken more than a few minutes. Just seemed very odd to me, can't explain it. When I next fire up the game, I'll try to observe more closely, though I need to build up my forces again. It's odd how I'd go from basically totally dominant simply waiting to send my Phalanxes in unopposed, to facing a very well protected (ship wise) enemy station once more.

Is it possible that this remaining enemy station had built up a backlog of ships to launch? I have, admittedly only rarely, seen ships get stuck on objects, could a ship get stuck launching, preventing others from doing so as the logic knows the path is not clear? Note: I had a ship of mine (Perez G) become stuck on one of the asteroids near the enemy base while I was attacking the static emplacements. This ship got partially stuck in the asteroid model, meaning that while several enemy ships were shooting at it, they couldn't actually hit until it unstuck its self.

Note: I did save / reload around the time the issue occurred as I popped away for a bit. Could the game possibly not have saved the state properly? I.e. ships stuck inside the station all launched upon reload?

I'll likely fire up the game later this eve & see how I get on.

Scoob.

Scoob

2015년 10월 19일 오전 9시 55분

Sorry, posts overlapped - thanks for the tip re: using a large ship as an assembly point. Good to know that stances are inherited like that.

Scoob.

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 19일 오전 11시 06분

Its possible that save load goofed up... hmmm...

Scoob

2015년 10월 20일 오후 1시 06분

Hi,

Didn't get chance to play yesterday but just fired up the game. I think there may be a slight saved game issue.

When I quit the game last, I had a "The Beast" Frigate and a "The Bear" Destroyer I'd captured sat near The Hub. Both these ships have gone now and I'm pretty sure they weren't attacked and destroyed. Also, there is now a long line of enemy Corvette and Frigate class ships lined up near the remaining enemy station. I'm a little confused as to what exactly has happened here, but the enemy has definitely both re-inforced and I appear to have lost ships.

To be clear: I've captured both "The Hub" and "Nottingham" now, with just "Petra" remaining. It's around Petra that I've observed the odd spawning / reload issues. I will try to complete this mission this evening and report back.

Btw: just in case there is any relevance, here is a summary of my system specs:

2500k @ 4.6ghz
GTX 680 x2 @ 1.2ghz (I assume just one is being used, not checked) 358.50 NV Drivers
32gb DDR3 1600
2x120gb SSD RAID 0 (system and Steam partitions)
Windows 10 Pro 64 - fresh install, not an upgrade & all up to date.

I'm running the game at 1920x1200 with all settings max'd out - it runs flawlessly for the most part.

Cheers,

Scoob.

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 20일 오후 1시 26분

Could you send me your auto save folder?

Its located here ( by default):

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\VoidDestroyer\Save\Autosave

If you email it to - paul @ void destroyer . com - I'll take a look and hopefully find the issue.

Scoob

2015년 10월 20일 오후 1시 54분

Hi,

Latest Autosave emailed.

Scoob.

#10

Leopardts

2015년 10월 21일 오전 2시 26분

G'day guys, been having issues with this mission aswell, 'The Hub'.
Was this mission intended to be so ridiculously difficult? I have tried to win it many different ways, got as far as having a large fleet at the hub ready to assault the first enemy base, but every time I attempted to do anything the enemy would pour out bigger and bigger fleets and my fleet got locked down defending the hub, unable to move. I tried microing Perez M's to destroy enemy positions like I had previously, but the stations spewed out so many fighters that I died in two seconds. Ended up losing all my ships as I just couldnt survive the stupendus barrage of enemy vessels.

Tried a whole heap of other ways, then after failing all them rushed the second enemy base at the very start after capturing the hub, resulting in my entire fleet dying except my Capital, which eneded up on the outskirts of the map stuck by itself while an army of hundreds of enemy ships sat at the hub just waiting for me to return. And yes, I tried to turn down the difficulty aswell and it seems to have literally no change to the gameplay :3

I've looked into the mission, and it seems the majority of negative reviews of your game quote this mission specifically as one of the blocking factors to players enjoying your wonderful game. A number of previous missions had similar issues, like the one with the near invincible Driller ship, which I only managed to kill by exploiting the "Withdraw" ability on my capital and reversing at near 200m/s shooting all my guns at it for what seemed like 30minutes ....

I really like the concept you've put into practise here but some missions need serious tweeks and casual gamers will have no hope of beating these levels. I want to be able to enjoy the missions without blowing an artery in frustraion and stress :3 I seriously think if I reattempt the Hub again I may manage to destroy my own brain ... lol

Sorry to sound so negative, I really love the game you've made here, and I don't know how hard it is to tweek the difficulty of these levels, and make them playable, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say its the biggest problem all your player base has, and I hope you can devote some of your time to fixing this issue.

#11

chaosavy [개발자] 2015년 10월 21일 오전 5시 30분

It wasn't intended to be ridiculously difficult - but it was intended to be difficult.

It turned out that my definition of difficult is pretty damn hard to players - sorry about that. I tweaked this mission to make it easier (at release), but it sounds like its still hard. This mission tests everything you know about the game so far.

--

There shouldn't be 100s of ships at any one time - there might be something bugged out. At a few points there might be a lot of drones - but they should be easily delt with. Are you sure its 100s? The enemy AI has capped building units - but if its 100s could you send me a save file for me to check out? My email is paul @ void destroyer .com (save files are located here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\VoidDestroyer\Save - the Autosave folder could also be useful)

--

Are you assaulting the base with all your forces while its defenses are there? Or are you first softening up the defenses via launching fighters/drones at the stations/hangars/guns?

Are you reinforcing via the gate? Including using Karakum to build ships faster?

Are you mining a bit of ore to help out with a few ships from the Hub?

Are you capturing enemy ships with the command ability - thereby decreasing their numbers and increasing yours?

Did you build hangar platform(s) (at least one) (behind the Hub so its out of reach and protected by the gun) and use those as well?

Do you have your ships in formation for max defense during the enemy waves?

--

There's also a mission walk through forum - which has my walk through of the mission.

chaosavy 님이 마지막으로 수정; 2015년 10월 21일 오전 5시 31분

#12

Leopardts

2015년 10월 22일 오전 1시 55분

Thanks Chaosavy for the quick response, and I have the perfect save file to send you lol.

1. I softened the defences by microing Perez M's out and destroying platform by platform, and just today finnaly managed to capture Nottingham, I'll send you the save of this, because as you will see after I did that it kinda got 1000x worse (theres gotta be at least a couple hundred enemy ships on the field at once :3)

2. Every ship that exits the gate get imediately destroyed or engaged, and if they try to disengage they are destroyed whilst leaving the area, even smaller ships which jump closer to the gate, theres just too many enemy vessels there.

3. Same problem as before, mining ships I get from the gate don't make it to the hub, plain and simple, I had to hold at nottingham when I finnaly captured it butmy fleet numbered 1 marauder, the Mark13 and my Capital vessel so I couldnt attempt to go back to the hub and clear the enemy out.

4. At one point 90% of my fleet was captured vessels, but they were wiped out by the constant assaults, and each newly captured ship suffers the same fate.

5. The Hub is currently 'the hub' of the entire enemy fleet, seems the AI just sends out constant ships to the Hub and never stops, I coudlnt build any new platforms there if I wanted too. :3

6. I don't have any ships left, and even when I did formations don't save you against overwhelming odds :3

So I managed to cpature Nottingham by spiltting a small force of capture ships off from the main fleet with both capitals. I figured out that spamming drones from the Hub and two capitals kept the enemy force busy whilst I sent Perez M's through the gate and Microed them to kill all the enemy defence around Nottingham and somehow after about 20 of them killed the Mega Gun XD . Still the more I pushed the bigger the enemy fleet got until it completely overwhelmed teh hub and my Small fleet had to evacuate and flee to behind the hub, where I managed to push to nottingham and capture it, just in time to see the fleet of 200+ ships just sitting at the Hub and the gate. No longer could I call in more ships from the gate and the hubs mining operation had been obliterated. I thought I could rebuild at Nottingham but I'm not allowed to build platforms there, and the ships I get from it do't last very long.
In summary I'm stranded at nottingham with a fleet at the last base and another at the hub and I'm stuck between them with 3 ships :3 GG me I guess lol.

#13