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 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Maerlande 18 Jun, 2015 @ 9:27am
The Dominions 4 FAQ for Steam
Moderation Policy
I have just been given moderator responsibility by Illwinter. Edi and I have moderated successfully as a team for over a year now and have similar views as well as a good understanding of Illwinter's desires for an official forum.

Here is a list of simple rules.

1) Don't be rude or mean. No name callling, passive aggressive talk or other such things.
2) Be respectful especially of Illwinter and staff. You can disagree, post requests and wishes, and debate. Do it respectfully.
3) Don't needlessly repeat topics from the FAQ. Check the FAQ before posting. If you wish to discuss or debate those issues, look for prior posts and bring something new and useful to the discussion.
4) Please make an effort to read the pinned threads and prior posting before you post. We are very willing to help you find out information, but do some of it on your own first.

That's about it. I will be quite active here. Edirr is very busy and Illwinter have their own work so we volunteers handle the daily forum work. It's better for all of us fans if Illwinter can make games, I think!

In addition, here are services we, the moderators, can do to assist you as players.

1) Provide pinned threads like the Bug Thread so that important issues that players would like Illwinter to notice don't get lost in the clutter. If you have requests for pins, post here or message us.
2) Provide a comfortable place to discuss Dominions 4.
3) Create additional sub forums if there is enough demand. We prefer to not create too many as a deep hierarchy can confuse things.

Where can I find Dominions 4 Documentation?
Most Dominions 4 documentation can be found here: http://www.illwinter.com/dom4

Game Manual
Modding Manual
Mapmaking Manual
Quick Reference Guide (keyboard shortcut list)
Command Line Switch guide

In addition, there is an excellent resource for viewing units, spells, items and other things in the game here: The Dom4 Data Inspector[larzm42.github.io]

You can also find several guides in the Desura Dominions 4 forums, specifically in the Council of Sages[www.desura.com] subforum.

My apologies for not having posted this thread much, much earlier.


Why is there no workshop?
- So far, Illwinter have not had time to put one up. And they are not sure due to the simple method of installing mods and the proliferation of mods around the various community sites that it would help. As well, a number of high profile modders do not want their work hosted on Steam so it would be an incomplete list anyways. But if you want to review it more, I can provide links to prior discussion.

Why is the game the price it is?
- Illwinter sets the price. As far as they have said, sales at this price with some reductions for short times provide them sufficient income to further their goals as a developer. More than that I do not know. Overall, the price is what it is. Complaining about the price has never changed it in many years and I do not think it ever will.

Why are the graphics old school?
- First, my understanding from modders is that it takes 1 - 2 hours to create a good sprite at the current resolution. There are something like 8000 sprites in the game with two position animation. Illwinter does this part time and has stated they prefer to do it part time. They both like their day jobs. They also enjoy the division of work with Kristoffer on art and content and Johan on programming. They do not appear to want to grow Illwinter and become managers. So hiring artists has not been in the business plan.
- Second, the code is 12+ years old. It would be an expensive and major project to change the engine. So far, Illwinter has not done that. It's possible they may someday, but keep in mind the scope of the project and the size of Illwinter. Illwinter has provide many free patches each of which are the equal to most developers DLC which you have to pay for. They like making new content. I think they prefer that to reworking a functional engine.
- Third, the game works just fine and plays on 3 OS's with minimal requirements. Why ruin a good thing for the sake of graphics? It may attract new players, but it may lose some of the player base. That's a business decision for Illwinter to make.

Is this game worth playing or buying?
- If you like complicated and deep strategy games you will like it. If you want modern graphics and engine you probably won't. If you like long term multiplayer turn based games you will like it. If you prefer fast paced games that play in a hour or two, you probably won't like it. If you don't mind a bit of under the hood work to tweak the game, you'll enjoy it. If you want a game that you just download and play, you probably won't.

The keyboard is not working right. Is there a solution?
- I do not know all the answers yet, but here is a solution from Illwinter: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/248510/discussions/0/864978110221782021/

Oh MAN! How do I learn to play this game!???
- Check the documentation pin here. Check out the list of let's plays and guides here. Ask questions in the new player thread. And check out the older communities with more posts on how to play.

How do I install maps or mods?
- This post by Hawk is very helpful for that: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/259060/discussions/2/622954747288708361/
Last edited by Maerlande; 20 Mar, 2016 @ 3:55am
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
oldrocker99 18 Jun, 2015 @ 10:22am 
Pretty well-put, and it answers the usual newb questions.

I have never, ever played any other game at all, anywhere approaching the sheer depth of Dominions. HOMM3 was my favorite TBS, until I found that Dominions is like three-dimensional chess, compared to checkers.
#1
Mormacil 18 Jun, 2015 @ 10:58am 
Originally posted by LINUXoldrocker99:
Pretty well-put, and it answers the usual newb questions.

I have never, ever played any other game at all, anywhere approaching the sheer depth of Dominions. HOMM3 was my favorite TBS, until I found that Dominions is like three-dimensional chess, compared to checkers.
Never tried Dwarf Fortress? I think the only game with comparable depth. Also what's that last point about tweaking?
#2
Hawk 18 Jun, 2015 @ 11:07am 
I think he means adding user maps and potentially mods (like the pretty-much-standard-for-mp worthy heroes mod).

I made a thread a while ago with a quick how-to add mods and maps and a thread about setting up mp-games.
Last edited by Hawk; 18 Jun, 2015 @ 11:20am
#3
Maerlande 18 Jun, 2015 @ 5:55pm 
Well, also managing installation folder, multiple copies of the game if you have varying versions hosted, and other OS type fiddling. Some folks have odd graphics issues. Dominions is not graphics intensive but there are odd drivers that cause trouble.
#4
Maerlande 18 Jun, 2015 @ 5:56pm 
Oh and also setting up games. That is not a simple matter of a lobby here or another host.
#5
Unrelatedpants 18 Jun, 2015 @ 10:21pm 
Likely worth stickying this, perhaps with some links to some video series? Your Mictlan game was a good watch, at least. I'm not up to date on who else is doing videos these days.
#6
Maerlande 19 Jun, 2015 @ 8:44am 
Originally posted by SenorOcho:
Likely worth stickying this, perhaps with some links to some video series? Your Mictlan game was a good watch, at least. I'm not up to date on who else is doing videos these days.

Done my old friend! :) I just received moderator responsibility this morning.
#7
Smiling Spectre 19 Jun, 2015 @ 9:02am 
Originally posted by Maerlande:
Why are the graphics old school?
Hmm, I just noticed your new policy about "locking FAQ-related topics", Maerlande. I am totally agree with idea to limit arguing in one theme - but "graphic" looks too arguable to be in FAQ only. I am, for once, disagree with "graphic is enough" argumentation, for example, and as this forum shows, such people will arise now and again. So maybe it worth to give this question another one, personal thread for arguing? Otherwise, it will quickly contaminate "FAQ" topic, as it's most arguable point of the game.
#8
Maerlande 19 Jun, 2015 @ 10:06am 
If the faq thread gets cluttered with graphics debates, I'll deal with it. If one topic works to contain it, I'm okay with that so maybe I'll let the first one go for a while and see.

The problem with the graphics debate is that it's not in our hands as fans, and overall the discussion tends to be disrespectful towards Illwinter. Asking if there are plans to change the engine is reasonable. Expecting it of two guys who do this for fun is too much. So I'll see how the tone of such discussion goes. If it's reasonable fine. If it's not, I'll apply policy.
#9
Smiling Spectre 19 Jun, 2015 @ 10:42am 
Originally posted by Maerlande:
The problem with the graphics debate is that it's not in our hands as fans, and overall the discussion tends to be disrespectful towards Illwinter. Asking if there are plans to change the engine is reasonable. Expecting it of two guys who do this for fun is too much.
Actually, it's two-fold question. :)

1. If Illwinter itself will ever clearly express their position, I think, I would stop arguing (and maybe it would stop any arguing altogether - but it depend on exact answer, of course). But up today I never seen any authors opinions about that at the Steam forum. Maybe it was expressed somewhere else? I admit that I didn't studied Desura too much. So question remains open for me.

2. I see no disrespect in expressing opinion "graphic is dated" - because, well, it's dated. :) Can it be changed is totally different question, of course, and it's in authors hands. What am I always contradict is fans opinion "graphic is fine, everyone are totally satisfied with it, and everyone who is against this point of view is simply not understand the beauty of this game".

Also, right now my main point is that graphic system simply haven't place for enhancements, because sprite size is quite limited to 32x32 pixels for the most common troops - and it's not enough now. So simple scaling existing sprites to double size (8x8 would became 16x16 and so on) would give place for needed enhancement - without need to do anything to graphic engine, except ability to display 4x times more data (but as engine is quite dated, and modern CPU are fast, I believe, it's not exactly very hard problem).

Unfortunately, I never received any adequate answer for this position even from fans, and authors, as I said, prefers to not arguing at Steam at all. :(

P.S. Sorry for inciting this flame again. I love the game, and I feel pity that it cannot get proper graphics, that's all.
#10
Maerlande 19 Jun, 2015 @ 4:10pm 
I can't help much with that on the technical part of that. I have talked at length with modders on the effort to learn and make good sprites and Sombre is a good friend who is one of the best sprite makers. Although some new guys are very very good. I base my estimates on his explanation. I can tell you from discussions with Kristoffer and Johan that they work hard on Conquest of Elysium and Dominions to the limit of their available time and have stated, I believe in the private beta forum but perhaps public, that at this time they want to continue to stay small and do it part time. Both love their day jobs. So at this time, Illwinter won't be expanding to become a larger studio for personal reasons. And at this time, they are focused on releasing Conquest of Elysium 4. They keep future projects tightly under wraps so I do not know more details on plans after that.

I see no disrespect in your discussion. It's fine by me.

I do know that if you directly scale the sprites up they look like crap. Because they are hand made by pixel at the current resolution. So scaling them 4x is not just zoom. It's redrawing every sprite. I think you can do the math on that for time.

Personally, sub contracting that could be quite simple but I am confident that Illwinter don't want to become managers. So unless they hired a manager that isn't likely. I suppose a fan based project could do it but that depends on intellectual property issues.

One more thing. The whole moving to new publishers is quite a new thing for Illwinter and it has resulted in great changes in the speed of development, the type of development, and many other things. It's pretty obvious that the contract with Shrapnel had a stranglehold on development. So things could very much change.

I hope this answers your questions. Even as a volunteer for Illwinter, I don't have a lot more information. And well, I don't like to nag Illwinter on this stuff :) I put my time in balance analysis, testing, and game quality issues. I personally don't care that the graphics are old school. I appreciate that others do and it might increase sales to change it. I play Dominions on some pretty ancient computers and love that. I can play it anywhere from a thumb drive and it's a "feature" I am very fond of due to my job with travel. I also love my modern high end graphics games but I only get a few hours a day on those with the shared gaming desktop at my house. So my bread and butter gaming is old style games that play on crap systems.
#11
Smiling Spectre 20 Jun, 2015 @ 5:22am 
Originally posted by Maerlande:
I can't help much with that on the technical part of that. I have talked at length with modders on the effort to learn and make good sprites and Sombre is a good friend who is one of the best sprite makers.

Note this.
I do know that if you directly scale the sprites up they look like crap. Because they are hand made by pixel at the current resolution. So scaling them 4x is not just zoom. It's redrawing every sprite. I think you can do the math on that for time.

And here you are wrong. :)

1. As I noted, game engine scales sprites natively. So regardless of resolution, it's always the same visible size. I tried everything from 640 to 1650 (that is my max). It have no any influence on visible size of sprite.

It means that scaling 4x will simply make no visual difference, as for me, except lowest native resolution that is displaying pixel-to-pixel (I believe, it's 800x600, but I can be wrong here. No matters). In that case sprites will be downscaled to appropriate size. Nothing too big, as for me. :) So this is good part: scaling will not change anything in a graphic realm (but maybe strain engine too much on new 256x256 sprites for gods and dragons - that's my weak point).

2. As you noted above, community have very good modders. But, I believe, regardless of modder class, it's quite limited amount of graphic info that can be crammed into 32x32 pixels. So anyone - modders or developers - hardly can do much enhancement in the current limitations. But 64x64 pixels is whole new world for this! :)

So, as I am continuing to state, scaling sprites will do nothing bad to game, but potentially can do a lot of good. :)

(And, in my dreams, sooner or later Illwinter will notice best modders and hire them for re-draw all graphics to the new standards... Oh, sweet dreams! ;)

Of course, I can be totally wrong... But so far I see no reasons why.
Even as a volunteer for Illwinter, I don't have a lot more information. And well, I don't like to nag Illwinter on this stuff :)
Valid point of view. :) But I will keep my expectation for Illwinter accidental answer. :)
#12
Maerlande 20 Jun, 2015 @ 5:27am 
Okay, let me see if I understand what you are suggesting. You propose the future sprites are done at 64x64 and not to redraw existing sprites? Because the existing will look fine in the game if they are 32x32 but the game uses 64x64?

I based my comment on zooming in on sprites when viewing them. They look like crap. But if it won't show in the game then that's fine.
#13
Smiling Spectre 20 Jun, 2015 @ 5:42am 
Originally posted by Maerlande:
Okay, let me see if I understand what you are suggesting. You propose the future sprites are done at 64x64 and not to redraw existing sprites? Because the existing will look fine in the game if they are 32x32 but the game uses 64x64?
I propose to shift all sprites one size up. I.e. former 8x8 sprites would became 16x16, and 128x128 will be 256x256.

I also propose to scale existing sprites accordingly (I believe, it will get about one hour for the full sprite range, with mass-transform everything to 200% and "closest neighbour" type of scaling). It will immediately make needed transition, without need to manually redraw anything.

Of course, resulting "old" sprites will be visually the same, only former 1 pixel will be transformed to 4 pixel square. And it will not make it any more pretty. But I believe, it will not make it uglier too. It simply will be no difference. :)

Of course, it will require important engine modification: namely, it need to be shifted one size up in recognition of this sprites. (I.e. old "tiny" is 8x8, so now engine must know that "tiny" is 16x16). Otherwise, well, it will be substantial mess in recognition. :)

Aside of that, yes, my proposal is just that: scale old sprites and make new sprites one size bigger. :)
I based my comment on zooming in on sprites when viewing them. They look like crap. But if it won't show in the game then that's fine.
Well, at least, I believe that it will be "invisible" transition. Of course, only Illwinter can state it for sure.
#14
GiantArmyofDoom 15 Sep, 2015 @ 1:00pm 
Im not sure where my question belongs to, so I put it up here. Im playing as Ernor ive summoned the harverster of sorrows, which brings diseases, but is it strange that 2 of my three harverster of sorrows got themself diseased? And they are not in one province.
#15
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Date Posted: 18 Jun, 2015 @ 9:27am
Posts: 21

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