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turtleboi 29 Jun, 2023 @ 12:44pm
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How do people genuinely feel about the new magazine based system?
IMO, coming from someone who has literally started playing 7 days a few weeks ago, its not the worst system in the world, but I feel it has some glaring flaws associated with it in its current state. One of the biggest turn offs for me at this point, is while I believe (correct me if i'm wrong here) the system was created in order to allow the player more freedom of how one built their character, while in practice is very limiting to the average player.

For example the sexual tyrannosaurus perk would benefit all classes, as it allowed one to use less stamina when using all tools and melee weapons. or of course miner 69'er allowed one to craft high level tools from an early stage, as well as break blocks faster which is extremely useful early game. This made them extremely useful perks to have REGARDLESS of build. To combat this, the developers design a system that allows the player to freely build their character how they want while still having access to progression-based items like the forge, or chem station. In theory this is a great idea and allows more freedom for the player to explore and play how they want.

What ends up occurring is a subsequent wild goose chase for these 'progression' based magazines and associated items, and for while I wanted to build an agility/Strength based character. I am now a hybrid Strength/Agility/Intellect character because I still barely got the minibike around the day 20 mark, and was nowhere NEAR the motorcycle. Because of this I abandoned my plans to pump up my agility tree, and was forced to use my skill points on intellect for the Grease Monkey perk, not to allow for the ability to BUILD an actual motorcycle (which is what the next stage of vehicle is after minibike), but to increase my chances of finding a silly magazine?

The point i'm trying to make is in practice, the design and entire point of the system is somewhat flawed. I still enjoy playing quite a bit and have had loads of fun playing around with my world, but would like to hear what others have thought about the magazine system hopefully without the toxicity. Thanks for reading.
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Vi-El 29 Jun, 2023 @ 12:52pm 
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Its a step in the right direction but 5 leaps down the canyon in the wrong direction.

Its effectivly the same system we already had 3 times over.

First we had: Learn by doing which this system is replicating.

- Youd get better as you play, unlock items via recipes and just do what you need to survive.

Then: We switched to skills and axed the LBD

- Now you could unlock everything through levelgrinding, literally so cause recipes were not important anymore as items also could be unlocked through skills. Apart from special mod items that is and certain buffs. But it made progression a joke more so than it was before.

Now: We have Learn by Looting. Which as you may notice as I said so above, is the same as Learn by Doing and also the Recipe system. Actually it just uses the LBD framework and ties finding "skillpoints" to the skill system. Which on its own wouldnt be terrible if it wasnt for the fact that you need like 500 of them just to get anything properly done.

And here comes the twist: This is an arguably worse system and despite how bad it is, I like it. Why? Because it makes people actually not able to just grind into early game steel quickly. The issue is however the very same as now players have no real agency over what they want to do and need to endlessly grind to get stuff done.

- To recap:

Before we could grind to progress

Now we HAVE TO grind to progress
Last edited by Vi-El; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 12:53pm
#1
william_es 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:03pm 
I think it's great.

Because now I'm no longer prevented from crafting level 5 stuff even though I don't have the attribute or weapon skills purchased. And with the recent change in mod slots, even level 5 stuff can have 4 slots for mods. The level 6 stuff still has slightly better stats, but level 5 stuff is no longer instantly inferior to level 6.

Removing crafting from attributes makes a lot of sense, and they'd already done that with vehicles. Intellect wasn't required to make vehicle parts or assemble a whole vehicle... it just made it cheaper to do those things. Any player could make a vehicle. Now weapons, armor and items have yanked from behind the attribute/skill requirements as well.

The weapon skills just make a player using that weapon more effective. Up to 300% more damage, dismemberment, etc. Which is as it should be.

And the system for influencing and steering which specific magazines actually drops totally works. I had armor skill of 03/100, spent one point in heavy armor... a week later in game I had 17/100. And it just kept going up. At day 90, the majority of magazines I find are pistol, shotgun, and salvage tools. The few skills I never put any points into.

By the way, if anyone hasn't noticed: cooking and medicine magazines drop regardless of your skill points spent. I had cooking up to 60/100 after a month, without spending a single point there. My next highest skill was only 15/100.
Last edited by william_es; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:03pm
#2
rincewind 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:03pm 
For me feels better than before.

With the magazines I'm doing little progress to reach a goal. Is pretty fun.
I like that you can influence what you get raiding different places. You want vehicle magazines you can search places with vehicle crates. Want tools, working stiff places.

I'm on day 50ish and finally maxed my primary weapon magazines, spears, and felt great.
Not like my last A20 game were I never found the steel knuckles schematic. Or a steel knuckle at all.

Working in rifles and now Assault Rifles. Also maxed the workstations and medicine magazines.

And started to use the Minibike, since I got a reasonable amount of oil shale to make fuel. Need to find the desert soon.

So far, the progression feels pretty natural. And fun. Which is the most important thing.
#3
Megahurts 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:14pm 
Honestly, it's fine for some things and horrible for others. Food and weapons levelling is fine, workbench and vehicles are awful.
Last edited by Megahurts; 1 Jul, 2023 @ 10:57pm
#4
Darren 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:28pm 
I think find a magazine to learn something could be okay in the core-idea. But here much went wrong.

I think basic-skills should be gated to the ressources you need. i have the old Forge model on my mind, it was so primitive, that i think everyone could build it without reading 20 magazines about it (not so RL but for Gamebalance)
Then there are the Cooking recipies. Same here, Everyone should be smart enough to put a piece og meat on Grill instead of starving or eating it raw while sitting in front of that Grill. so you starting with these primitve skills, making you able to set your progression speed by yourself, choosing how far you like to increase for better recipies.

Also the fight in Multiplayer would maybe end, because everyone can craft a primitve Form of what is really needed to survive. Everything else would be increasing just the chosen Skill/Tree/Spec so not everyone would like to have this cooking magazin NOW because he NEEDS it much to make a Tea.

If we had the Chance to search especially for the exact thing we need (The Grill e.G) that system wouldnt be such a pain. Every special recipie like a chem station can be gated to the magazines, but less of them. So far from me, maybe i will expand this later a bit
Last edited by Darren; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:29pm
#5
Shurenai 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:37pm 
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Originally posted by Black Puppet:
Its a step in the right direction but 5 leaps down the canyon in the wrong direction.

Its effectivly the same system we already had 3 times over.

First we had: Learn by doing which this system is replicating.

- Youd get better as you play, unlock items via recipes and just do what you need to survive.

Then: We switched to skills and axed the LBD
Out the gate you're off entirely.

Learn by reading is in no way replicating learn by doing. O.o It's just a name people associated it with.

Learn by doing was a SKILL system that affected how good you were at doing various tasks like fighting with certain weapons or building in general; It had absolutely nothing to do with crafting.

Learn by Reading on the other hand is a CRAFTING system whose only association with the skill tree is that having a given skill increases the chances of getting a particular book type and more of that book type. Increasing your reading skills doesn't affect your damage with a given weapon or anything; It just teaches you new crafting recipes and higher quality levels.
Last edited by Shurenai; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 1:39pm
#6
Mearodin 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:01pm 
i dont like the new book system... maybe if it was only 50 books at the most.... other wise i hate this system.
#7
Snuffy 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:04pm 
Originally posted by Shurenai:
Learn by Reading on the other hand is a CRAFTING system whose only association with the skill tree is that having a given skill increases the chances of getting a particular book type and more of that book type. Increasing your reading skills doesn't affect your damage with a given weapon or anything; It just teaches you new crafting recipes and higher quality levels.

Except it does actually affect your weapon damage because it affects the weapon and quality you can craft; why not attach the weapon recipes to a Learn By Doing weapon skill instead? Right now, the looting/buying of weapons seems to outpace the ability to craft because of the drop rate and randomness of the magazine drops. The rate of crafting item progression and skill progression used to be tied together, why separate them now? Also, what was the purpose of removing so many respawnable permanent loot containers and putting more destroy-on-loot containers down instead? It seems like it's just forcing you into a cycle of quest-and-loot the POI and then quest again. WTF happened to organic exploration and looting in this game? Why not let both playstyles be viable?

If I wanted to play a game where I spent 80% of my time running from one exclamation mark to another questing, I'd just play World of Warcraft. This questing system being in the game isn't a problem, TFP's forcing it to be really the only way to play the game is.
Last edited by Snuffy; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:09pm
#8
pong 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:05pm 
Ignoring the fact that things like the minibike and crucible are WAY too deep in the magazine hunt (I've only found 13 vehicle mags by day 24) my biggest issue is with the weighted bias for finding magazines you have points spec'd toward.

The simplest example of the issue is that I wanted to get Bacon and Eggs as quickly as possible as it's the best early game food item so I dropped a point in Master Chef. I start finding the food mags everywhere and got the recipe quickly. Great! Except I _only_ wanted to get that far - I don't want any more of the recipes. But too bad, food mags are just going to keep showing up even though I no longer want/need them and take the place of other mags I might actually need from the loot, like vehicle mags.

I could waste the money resetting my points, but then I have the same issue with spear and rifle mags and I can't just not spec into those if I want to use them. I just unlocked tier 4 sniper rifles. I can't even get the materials to craft those yet and certainly don't need them. My tier 5 hunting rifle is just fine for the next few weeks, but this system is just going to keep choking me with rifle and spear mags I don't need and put me behind for other things I do need like vehicles and workstations.

I suppose my ultimate opinion is that I'd much rather have more direct control over my progression so I can decide what I do and do not want to learn instead of a system that wastes my time giving me progression I just don't want.
#9
Rena Ichigawa 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:06pm 
Personally quite like it. I don't end up with tier 5 steel tools and weapons by the end of day 3 anymore. Even abusing lucky looter, and the likes. I'm still in low tier iron equipment, to high tier stone. Not to mention the new pois, and how danger rating actually works. Can't just bulldoze through a tier 4 highschool, and come out unscathed. I get out through the ringer for every hallway. XD
#10
Damian Ramirez 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:20pm 
Magazine system works pretty well when you play coop , that's where the system works perfectly. Everyone has a role , and has a specific character.
On the other hand , on singleplayer doesn't work at all , and all is based on RNG and not much more. But it's good for grinding and not letting the player get to endgame so fast
Last edited by Damian Ramirez; 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:21pm
#11
rincewind 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:22pm 
Originally posted by Damian Ramirez:
Magazine system works pretty well when you play coop , that's where the system works perfectly. Everyone has a role , and has a specific character.
On the other hand , on singleplayer doesn't work at all , and all is based on RNG and not much more.
Really? Because I only play single player and it's working even better than the previous one of perks and schemathics. The magazines are weirdily less RNG dependant.
#12
Shurenai 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:25pm 
Originally posted by Snuffy:
Originally posted by Shurenai:
Learn by Reading on the other hand is a CRAFTING system whose only association with the skill tree is that having a given skill increases the chances of getting a particular book type and more of that book type. Increasing your reading skills doesn't affect your damage with a given weapon or anything; It just teaches you new crafting recipes and higher quality levels.

Except it does actually affect your weapon damage because it affects the weapon and quality you can craft; why not attach the weapon recipes to a Learn By Doing weapon skill instead? Right now, the looting/buying of weapons seems to outpace the ability to craft because of the drop rate and randomness of the magazine drops. The rate of crafting item progression and skill progression used to be tied together, why separate them now? Also, what was the purpose of removing so many respawnable permanent loot containers and putting more destroy-on-loot containers down instead? It seems like it's just forcing you into a cycle of quest-and-loot the POI and then quest again. WTF happened to organic exploration and looting in this game? Why not let both playstyles be viable?

If I wanted to play a game where I spent 80% of my time running from one exclamation mark to another questing, I'd just play World of Warcraft. This questing system being in the game isn't a problem, TFP's forcing it to be really the only way to play the game is.
It doesn't affect it the same way, though. You can acquire higher level equipment without crafting at all (and indeed a lot of complaints were that it was too easy to get high level gear; and you say as much yourself); So it's a bit unfair to say that LBR 'increases your damage'.

On the other hand, LBD raised your damage regardless of what quality weapon you were using. A 40% damage increase to a Q1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥ weapon, or a 40% damage boost to a Q6 top tier weapon, it didn't discern. You just got better with all weapons of a given type by using it more.
#13
pong 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:34pm 
I get the desire to better control the rate of learning in the game, but disagree with allowing the game to also determine the direction. The system used in Undead Legacy was a step in a better direction. It tied learning to raiding by having generic "research" items drop in loot but allowed the player to decide what to spend that research on - almost like having a separate crafting xp system. Something like that allows the game to have it's foot (at least partially) on the gas pedal, but leaves the player in control of the steering wheel.
#14
youtube.com/@gameGuy777 29 Jun, 2023 @ 2:47pm 
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ill correct you, it was not created to give the player more freedom of how they use their character.

If anything freedom has been stripped in A21.


The Magazine/books thing was created so it wasn't as easy as, hit zombie, get xp, use point, know everything. Basically before you could farm zombie kills or mine mine mine until you got to a good level and never ever needed to leave base or loot to do so.

And what I mean about lack of freedom is, TFP is forcing loot playstyles on all of us. We have players who don't like to loot all day everyday, and TFP has made it so you HAVE to loot a lot to get what you need. Which makes sense i guess, but its forcing one playstyle when historically, we have had many many playstyles.
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Date Posted: 29 Jun, 2023 @ 12:44pm
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