Online check that is done like one every three months and just ho many computers and portable devices ware you planing to install on?

Also if it desktop then there should never be reason to unplug online connection so having online check should not be an issue.

But hey, everyone have their life choices, after all it took thing long to get second game since people did not buy first one.

Originally posted by Stan:

Online check that is done like one every three months and just ho many computers and portable devices ware you planing to install on?

Also if it desktop then there should never be reason to unplug online connection so having online check should not be an issue.

But hey, everyone have their life choices, after all it took thing long to get second game since people did not buy first one.

2 weeks actually is the norm. Trying to play denuvo games on the steam deck while on vacation is fun.

Not to mention denuvo will probably die. The bodies of other antipiracy drm have established that pattern. And if it does, unless denuvo is removed, every game with denuvo will be a pile of trash in your game library. Except of course for those who pirated it obviously.

They'll add Enigma to the game down the line.

Because cooms would rather live in denial than acknowledge the fact that Sh.tuvo is borderline malware with all the nastiness that comes with it. I actually wish they had a major outage sometime that would leave those cooms without their games to play just so I can laugh into their face and say "I told you so, har har! :-D".

I don't think many companies or publishers do this to legitimately protect their game. It's often just something that is done to appease shareholders or people higher up paying the $$$ bills. It make stonks go up. Now you can gloat about how your game has the "latest protections against piracy", even if those latest protections aren't even all that great or necessarily robust all the time.

Ok, getting to the actual question OP asked on why and not getting into fights about Denuvo.

Most likely because higher up execs are demanding they "do something about piracy" and Denuvo is an obvious pick currently there is practically nobody cracking it, and/or they likely have some sort of contract deal to add Denuvo to all their releases.

On top of that it's relying on consumer's ignorance as most have no idea that it even exists, and there are a lot more people these days who would defend such a thing than in the past. Remember the Sony CD Rootkit scandal? That was in 2005, feels like if that were to happen today it would be a much much smaller scandal and many would defend it. In fact, RIOT basically does that with the anti-cheat on Valorant and now League of Legends, and many try to defend them installing what is basically a rootkit on your PC.

It's not just publishers that have lost the plot, a lot of gamers have too, for some reason people these days are much more willing to defend the multi-billion (and a few that have even reached the TRILLION mark... of which Capcom is one of those) dollar corporation when they pull anti-consumer tactics than they were 15-20+ years ago, a lot of the things corporations pull today would have gotten them raked over the coals a few years ago, which is likely why they do it, because less and less consumers are pushing back and not only accepting it, but even defending it.

Originally posted by *Not*Dominicwild:

I don't think many companies or publishers do this to legitimately protect their game. It's often just something that is done to appease shareholders or people higher up paying the $$$ bills. It make stonks go up. Now you can gloat about how your game has the "latest protections against piracy", even if those latest protections aren't even all that great or necessarily robust all the time.

This is pretty much the truth here.

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Originally posted by Stan:

Online check that is done like one every three months and just ho many computers and portable devices ware you planing to install on?

Also if it desktop then there should never be reason to unplug online connection so having online check should not be an issue.

But hey, everyone have their life choices, after all it took thing long to get second game since people did not buy first one.

2 weeks actually is the norm. Trying to play denuvo games on the steam deck while on vacation is fun.

Not to mention denuvo will probably die. The bodies of other antipiracy drm have established that pattern. And if it does, unless denuvo is removed, every game with denuvo will be a pile of trash in your game library. Except of course for those who pirated it obviously.

As much as i dont like drm i will say 2 weeks is not the norm very rarely will games actually make you check after the first time, 99% of my games that have denuvo on my completely offline PC still work just fine after 1+ year on install, there are very few examples of multi checks IE MGS V and Persona 5 (which funny enough SMT V and P4G and P3P only ran on a one time check.)

A lot of companies now just run it off the one time check now.

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Not to mention denuvo will probably die. The bodies of other antipiracy drm have established that pattern. And if it does, unless denuvo is removed, every game with denuvo will be a pile of trash in your game library. Except of course for those who pirated it obviously.

As much as I can agree with you on the fact that Denuvo is completely useless for these kinds of releases and is even more of a nonsense when I'm the one actually paying for it (service fee + monthly fee + price per activation.... I'm the one paying for this in the end as they included all of these in the selling price in a product which is already available through other means), you're hardly making a point with this statement

US laws allow to bypass dead DRMs. If such a thing happen, literally every post of this forum and every guide would spread a way to bypass it, and unless you live in some kind of China-style area with locked internet, everyone will be able to get it.

Denuvo can be bypassed, and if you're looking through history, we've had far worse DRMs than Denuvo (SecuROM for instance, far more limitating), and no DRM has ever blocked any game. The rare case of "lost games" such as Dark Spore required a permanent online connection cause the game required datas stored on a server. You will find the exact same thing for Diablo 3/4 or any MMORPG, yet people are not nearly as triggered by this as they are by Denuvo. And actually, even those games can be "recovered" in lots of cases (Dark Spore has been as well, it just took years and isn't perfect).

The moment Denuvo is permanently shut down, any method to bypass it can be widely spread (as Denuvo won't be there to fix anything), and there will always be new methods found (or made possible by hardware evolution by the time we reach that point). Denuvo has plenty of issues, but judging from history, it's hardly an actual threat for game preservation (over-reliance on digital platforms or server-based experience, heavy anticheats preventing modding and potential fanmade compatibility patch are far more dangerous, yet you hardly have groups of people fighting against this)

If we're going by prev AA releases, denuvo *should* be removed 6 months from now. It'll probably get replaced by enigma, however.

Originally posted by Nanarchiste:

and no DRM has ever blocked any game.

Physical DRM solutions if you were to lose what you needed? Legal copy is a paperweight
Lenslock? Got the wrong TV type, size or the wrong lenses were shipped with the game? Paperweight.
Starforce? All dead without cracks
GWFL? All dead without cracks
SecuROM? All dead without cracks.
Denuvo? https://www.pcgamer.com/a-great-day-for-drm-as-denuvo-lapse-renders-tons-of-games-temporarily-unplayable/

But I thought no DRM has ever blocked any legal copy of games. It would seem that... Every solution has done just that to some degree.

Originally posted by Luna:

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

2 weeks actually is the norm. Trying to play denuvo games on the steam deck while on vacation is fun.

Not to mention denuvo will probably die. The bodies of other antipiracy drm have established that pattern. And if it does, unless denuvo is removed, every game with denuvo will be a pile of trash in your game library. Except of course for those who pirated it obviously.

As much as i dont like drm i will say 2 weeks is not the norm very rarely will games actually make you check after the first time, 99% of my games that have denuvo on my completely offline PC still work just fine after 1+ year on install, there are very few examples of multi checks IE MGS V and Persona 5 (which funny enough SMT V and P4G and P3P only ran on a one time check.)

A lot of companies now just run it off the one time check now.

Literally every denuvo game I own it’s 2 weeks. There may be exceptions and perhaps I happen to own all the games in a small pool of 2 week check ins but wherever I look on the internet I see the same assertion and I can only speak on what I have seen.

Originally posted by Nanarchiste:

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

Not to mention denuvo will probably die. The bodies of other antipiracy drm have established that pattern. And if it does, unless denuvo is removed, every game with denuvo will be a pile of trash in your game library. Except of course for those who pirated it obviously.

As much as I can agree with you on the fact that Denuvo is completely useless for these kinds of releases and is even more of a nonsense when I'm the one actually paying for it (service fee + monthly fee + price per activation.... I'm the one paying for this in the end as they included all of these in the selling price in a product which is already available through other means), you're hardly making a point with this statement

US laws allow to bypass dead DRMs. If such a thing happen, literally every post of this forum and every guide would spread a way to bypass it, and unless you live in some kind of China-style area with locked internet, everyone will be able to get it.

Denuvo can be bypassed, and if you're looking through history, we've had far worse DRMs than Denuvo (SecuROM for instance, far more limitating), and no DRM has ever blocked any game. The rare case of "lost games" such as Dark Spore required a permanent online connection cause the game required datas stored on a server. You will find the exact same thing for Diablo 3/4 or any MMORPG, yet people are not nearly as triggered by this as they are by Denuvo. And actually, even those games can be "recovered" in lots of cases (Dark Spore has been as well, it just took years and isn't perfect).

The moment Denuvo is permanently shut down, any method to bypass it can be widely spread (as Denuvo won't be there to fix anything), and there will always be new methods found (or made possible by hardware evolution by the time we reach that point). Denuvo has plenty of issues, but judging from history, it's hardly an actual threat for game preservation (over-reliance on digital platforms or server-based experience, heavy anticheats preventing modding and potential fanmade compatibility patch are far more dangerous, yet you hardly have groups of people fighting against this)

The reality of denuvo is that it continues to change versions and the method by which it is bypassed has to be applied game by game in most cases. I will acquiesce however that if Denuvo died and all its games became worthless that the community would likely find workarounds for at minimum all the higher profile games if not all of them. However your average gamer doesn’t pirate or mod things due to a perceived risk or perceived difficulty. Only the people who look into it will find it. Furthermore in that eventuality pirating the game and applying a fan made patch for the game will be nearly equivalent processes. The only difference is that pirates will have it earlier and will have had the better version of the game for longer which is very very sad.

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

Originally posted by Nanarchiste:

and no DRM has ever blocked any game.

Physical DRM solutions if you were to lose what you needed? Legal copy is a paperweight
Lenslock? Got the wrong TV type, size or the wrong lenses were shipped with the game? Paperweight.
Starforce? All dead without cracks
GWFL? All dead without cracks
SecuROM? All dead without cracks.
Denuvo? https://www.pcgamer.com/a-great-day-for-drm-as-denuvo-lapse-renders-tons-of-games-temporarily-unplayable/

But I thought no DRM has ever blocked any legal copy of games. It would seem that... Every solution has done just that to some degree.

Yeah, all dead without cracks. All of the DRMs you mentioned have been cracked and the distribution of these cracks is legal once the DRM is no longer functional.

You know what's the most recent game completely unplayable today ? Concord. Regardless of what you think of this game, anyone who would want to know what it was all about and try this game today can't... Is that because of Denuvo ?
When a huge portion of Monster Hunter 1 & 2 (PS2) has been totally blocked (making the games unplayable cause the originals weren't balanced around solo missions), is that because of DRMs ? A huge chunk of Phantasy Star Universe's story still can't be played up to this day (private servers don't include the story), did DRMs prevent the preservation of this game ?

As for what you mentioned for Denuvo, the very title says it all, "TEMPORARILY unplayable". Is it a nuisance customers should complain about ? Yes, definitely, no problem here. Is it an actual threat for media preservation ? Hardly


EDIT:

Originally posted by ZexxCrine:

The reality of denuvo is that it continues to change versions and the method by which it is bypassed has to be applied game by game in most cases. I will acquiesce however that if Denuvo died and all its games became worthless that the community would likely find workarounds for at minimum all the higher profile games if not all of them. However your average gamer doesn’t pirate or mod things due to a perceived risk or perceived difficulty. Only the people who look into it will find it. Furthermore in that eventuality pirating the game and applying a fan made patch for the game will be nearly equivalent processes. The only difference is that pirates will have it earlier and will have had the better version of the game for longer which is very very sad.

Well, lots of old games (20+ years) require fanmade patch or compatibility patch. In a lot of cases, the DRM bypass are directly included within those and when they're not, they are really easy to find (as a linux user believe me, I know the nuisance it can be, Denuvo is clearly not the most annoying one).

I'm not pro-Denuvo, I even started my message giving an argument on how Denuvo affects me that isn't pointed out enough in my opinion, Denuvo costs a lot and I'd rather the money to be used on the actual product. I'm mostly pointing out (as someone who cares about media preservation cause I love playing old games) that Denuvo is not a serious threat. All DRMs have been bypassed, and even if it's some kind of "cat & mouse game" while the DRM is still active (if the flaws are found, it's corrected), it's hardly a real danger for preservation. Games treated as "game as service" requiring always online connection will be way harder to preserve (NFS 2015 for example), and Denuvo is really not the big threat for this aspect.

Originally posted by Nanarchiste:

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

Physical DRM solutions if you were to lose what you needed? Legal copy is a paperweight
Lenslock? Got the wrong TV type, size or the wrong lenses were shipped with the game? Paperweight.
Starforce? All dead without cracks
GWFL? All dead without cracks
SecuROM? All dead without cracks.
Denuvo? https://www.pcgamer.com/a-great-day-for-drm-as-denuvo-lapse-renders-tons-of-games-temporarily-unplayable/

But I thought no DRM has ever blocked any legal copy of games. It would seem that... Every solution has done just that to some degree.

Yeah, all dead without cracks. All of the DRMs you mentioned have been cracked and the distribution of these cracks is legal once the DRM is no longer functional.

You know what's the most recent game completely unplayable today ? Concord. Regardless of what you think of this game, anyone who would want to know what it was all about and try this game today can't... Is that because of Denuvo ?
When a huge portion of Monster Hunter 1 & 2 (PS2) has been totally blocked (making the games unplayable cause the originals weren't balanced around solo missions), is that because of DRMs ? A huge chunk of Phantasy Star Universe's story still can't be played up to this day (private servers don't include the story), did DRMs prevent the preservation of this game ?

As for what you mentioned for Denuvo, the very title says it all, "TEMPORARILY unplayable". Is it a nuisance customers should complain about ? Yes, definitely, no problem here. Is it an actual threat for media preservation ? Hardly

It's happened before, it'll happen again and someday it will be permanent. And if you think for a moment that companies like EA, Activision, and Take-Two wouldn't go out of their way to find a way to pay for legislation to make cracks illegal. I got a bridge to sell you, it will only need just a "donation" of a couple million to congress and... bam. Illegal.

By the way, if you or I were to try the same thing, we'd be arrested for trying to bribe a member of government.