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Pinball FX > General Discussions > Topic Details
InVader 16 Dec, 2024 @ 3:17pm
PC and Amiga classics
Any chance we could get some tables from older computer games? Seeing as M already has Duke Nukem Balls of Steel. My picks would be:

Space Cadet
Obviously gotta have this. It's from Full Tilt Pinball, came with 2 other tables (Dragon's Keep and Skullduggery), but on Windows XP everybody only had Space Cadet. The gimmick on almost all the tables was some kind of magnet messing with the movement of the balls.

Pinball Fantasies
Made by Digital Illusions (today's D.I.C.E). If there's any chance of getting the iconic intro music (e.g. as Pinhall music) that would also be welcome. Most of these tables are rather simple by modern standards, but still fun.
  • Stones & Bones - probably the best table in the game, halloween themed, you're catching ghosts and trying to reach MIDNIGHT, has very cool music. In the original game the multiplier was bugged, applying it to the score twice.
  • Billion Dollar Game Show - Theme is a TV game show, you're trying to send unlock and send the ball for the big spinwheel which gives you a random reward, gotta get them all. One of the weaker tables (and in the original game also a bit buggy), but fun non the less.
  • Speed Devils - a racing themed table and my personal favourite and really good music. Is extremely simple, but has really good flow. You're trying to reach 1st place by doing combos, while also increasing speed, getting upgrades and doing pit stops to increase multipliers, all in this specific order, because that's how the flow on the table and it's really satisfying.
  • Party Land - Theme Park table, well designed, you're trying to spell PARTY to launch the main mode by completing the side-objectives of the table. I always found the music and sound effects annoying though.

eXtreme Pinball
Made by Digital Extremes (studio behind Warframe) and Epic games. Probably THE definitive MS-DOS pinball game that everyone at least the shareware demo of. Had atrocious physics (on PC), but some really fun tables and cool music. All tables had some sort of ball-changing gimmick.
  • Rock Fantasy - By far one of my all-time favorite tables. Robert A. Allen gave it an insane soundtrack. Your objective was to become a world famous rock-star and release albums which changed your ball to vinyl/golden/platinum discs. One of the missions involved using the ball to trace and reveal a concert picture on the big TV in the center. The table had a really difficult warp-ramp skillshot,
  • Medieval Knights - It has a rather bad layout, but once again you had to use ball-swapping mechanic to change your ball into a cannon-ball and load it into a cannon and stuff like that.
  • Urban Chaos - another cop themed table, with a really fun layout involving the upper flippers which sort of split the table in 2 halves (upper and lower). Also had a strong drain protection mechanic and broken stackable "defendo multiball".
  • Monkey Mayhem - 2nd best table in this game imo, Music kinda reminds me of Donkey Kong, Has a really good layout, a mini-table and a double loop-de-loop ramp for which you used a side-mounted paddle-plunger.

Pinball Illusions
Also by Digital Illusions, with a cool Amiga demo intro. Most of these tables are a jab at some trending pop-culture thing. Again, mostly simple but fun tables.
  • Babewatch - sounds adult themed, but I think it's actually an attempt at a "Baywatch" table? Or a greaser table. Has a neat rock&roll soundtrack on a jukebox, you're lifting weights at the gym, going to the casino, little street races with old 1950s vehicles, you do combos to do some surfing etc.
  • Law & Order - the not-robocop sci-fi table, the objective is to catch criminals and put them in jail.
  • Extreme Sport - title says it all, was my personal favourite as a kid, because everything had to be extreme in the 90s.
Last edited by InVader; 16 Dec, 2024 @ 3:35pm
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Pinballwiz45b 16 Dec, 2024 @ 4:00pm 
Originally posted by InVader:
Any chance we could get some tables from older computer games? Seeing as M already has Duke Nukem Balls of Steel.

That entirely depends on licensing from those companies and what belongs to who. I'm not sure about Epic considering how they are on older titles as of late. DICE, I'm not sure about either, but I'm hoping for Illusions (with Vikings) at least.

Space Cadet, or rather Full Tilt, is more difficult to license out than Indiana Jones. https://www.theloadout.com/pinball-fx/windows-space-cadet

“So a lot of these games, they send you on a wild goose hunt trying to figure out where the rights lie,” Kirk replies, a touch of weariness in his tone. “I spent two years trying to track down the rights to Space Cadet pinball. I got to the ends of every road; completely dead-ended.” - Mel Kirk

Space Cadet will not be based on the Windows XP version, which was originally the 95 Plus version. Zen has to gun after the entire Full Tilt package -- might as well, anyway, since you're trying to get the rights from the people who built the table in the first place. I have a CD copy of Full Tilt -- I know exactly it feels.
Last edited by Pinballwiz45b; 16 Dec, 2024 @ 4:06pm
#1
InVader 16 Dec, 2024 @ 4:13pm 
Originally posted by Pinballwiz45b:
Space Cadet, or rather Full Tilt, is more difficult to license out than Indiana Jones. https://www.theloadout.com/pinball-fx/windows-space-cadet

“So a lot of these games, they send you on a wild goose hunt trying to figure out where the rights lie,” Kirk replies, a touch of weariness in his tone. “I spent two years trying to track down the rights to Space Cadet pinball. I got to the ends of every road; completely dead-ended.” - Mel Kirk
I believe in christmas miracles.
#2
MikeFulton 16 Dec, 2024 @ 4:53pm 
If you are talking about making modern 3D tables that are merely thematically based on those old tables, I think that could work, although that might remove a lot of the nostalgia from the equation for some users. Generally, I would think most users would see them as just another batch of Zen originals without making any connection to the older games.

Otherwise, none of those older pinball games are done anything remotely like how FX is done. None of them are 3D -- they all use 2D sprites and bitmaps. You could certainly make new versions with high-rez graphics, but that wouldn't really fit into FX.
#3
Pinballwiz45b 16 Dec, 2024 @ 5:14pm 
Originally posted by mfulton:
Otherwise, none of those older pinball games are done anything remotely like how FX is done. None of them are 3D -- they all use 2D sprites and bitmaps. You could certainly make new versions with high-rez graphics, but that wouldn't really fit into FX.

Space Cadet had a massive impact on the older Windows generations growing up, and would resonate with many. Zen could do quite a bit with the Full Tilt games -- heck, Dragon's Keep has a 5-ball multiball mode, and Skulduggery isn't that bad of a table.

Full Tilt 2 isn't as recognizable, so I'd prefer Zen stick with the original 3-table package.
#4
InVader 17 Dec, 2024 @ 11:33am 
Originally posted by mfulton:
If you are talking about making modern 3D tables that are merely thematically based on those old tables, I think that could work, although that might remove a lot of the nostalgia from the equation for some users. Generally, I would think most users would see them as just another batch of Zen originals without making any connection to the older games.

Otherwise, none of those older pinball games are done anything remotely like how FX is done. None of them are 3D -- they all use 2D sprites and bitmaps. You could certainly make new versions with high-rez graphics, but that wouldn't really fit into FX.
I'm talking about a modern 3D remaster. Doesn't matter that the old ones are 2D, every element of those tables is a real, recognizable element of a real pinball table. The sprite that looks like a bumper is still just a bumper.
#5
VeGooner 17 Dec, 2024 @ 12:28pm 
While I'm sure nobody is really interested in what I was doing at five years old (and this particular title wasn't even mentioned), Pinball Dreams on AMIGA is what started my love of not only pinball, but heavy metal music too. That intro theme is epic!

Space Cadet is the one that made me understand there was more to pinball than just hitting bumpers, orbits and ramps. That first time I finished the first three missions had me hooked. I'd love to see it remade, if licensing wasn't an issue... Come to think of it they don't even need to use the same name and theme. I doubt the entire layout is protected. Also coincidentally had an excellent soundtrack!

I guess this is where physical tables came in, which I unfortunately haven't had much experience with due to barely ever coming across them and the fact they're hard as nails in comparison to their virtual counterparts (though I haven't played one since I started with more accurate simulations). Addams Family and then Bride of Pinbot were in a pub I used to frequent, so they've been a couple of my favourites to play on here.

I imagine I'm not the only one around here who played Fish Tales at that Irish bar just off International Drive in Orlando, either. I'd have classed that as my favourite of all time until I played Theatre of Magic.

...Pointless post really, just sharing a bit of nostalgia.

Originally posted by InVader:
Seeing as M already has Duke Nukem Balls of Steel.

For the record; Duke Nukem on Pinball M is an original Zen design, not Balls of Steel... So maybe that's another that should be remade!
#6
ak64 17 Dec, 2024 @ 4:49pm 
Space Cadet with more realistic physics would be sick.
#7
InVader 8 Jan @ 7:33am 
Originally posted by VeGooner:
While I'm sure nobody is really interested in what I was doing at five years old (and this particular title wasn't even mentioned), Pinball Dreams on AMIGA is what started my love of not only pinball, but heavy metal music too. That intro theme is epic!
I'm aware of that one. When I was a kid we only had Fantasies, so I played Dreams much later, when I was already an adult. I kinda found the tables to be simplistic tbh - even more so than the Fantasies tables -, but I imagine that's what most people would think of Speed Devils in Fantasies if they tried it today after already playing any of Zen's tables. The Illusions tables are the ones which imo have comparable complexity to modern tables. Still nothing compared to crazy IRL tables like James Bond, which has 24 missions.

Originally posted by VeGooner:
I imagine I'm not the only one around here who played Fish Tales at that Irish bar just off International Drive in Orlando, either. I'd have classed that as my favourite of all time until I played Theatre of Magic.
I'm from broke eastern block country, we had no arcades or pinball machines here. Anyone around here who likes pinball likes them exclusively because of computer pinball games.

Originally posted by VeGooner:
For the record; Duke Nukem on Pinball M is an original Zen design, not Balls of Steel... So maybe that's another that should be remade!
Oh, I had no idea (I haven't really played Balls of Steel, but I know it's famous).
#8
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Pinball FX > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: 16 Dec, 2024 @ 3:17pm
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