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Cadpig 27 Oct, 2024 @ 12:14am
New Update - Quick Thoughts
Our co-op group had a chance to try out one quick heist earlier, though we didn't end up finishing it. Overall the new stuff is great, but here are some things we want to bring attention to.

1 - Flashlight
Just going in fresh, only having the default gear ended up being a huge problem. Only having one flashlight is incredibly frustrating. Even if we bought more, though, having that always take up an equipment slot feels bad.

At first I thought it would encourage us to use the lights more, but it didn't take long before the ghost kept tripping the breaker because how close we were to the cap. The most annoying part was that when we'd turn the power back on, all of our lights would stay on, so it would go out again in a few seconds when the ghost would hit a switch again, making it very hard to reset our lights.

Suggestions: My preferred suggestion would just to make the flashlight a function of the phone. I know the flashlight has been an item and we have cosmetics for it, so I don't know what to do about that. Alternatively, the lights could cost less power so it isn't so easy for the ghost to push the breaker over the edge just because we're trying to light up a corridor so we can see what we're doing.

2 - Paintings and the Van
The painting objective is a bit of a problem because once you have picked up a painting, it is packed into a box and you can't check it with UV anymore. We ended up just throwing all the paintings we found into the back of the van.

Speaking of, it wasn't clear exactly where we needed to put them. It seemed entirely physics-based in what would fit in the van. Things kept falling out. Since we had both the painting objective and a package delivery objective, we had a lot of things to put in there.

3 - Graffiti Points
We were having a very difficult time finding these, and a bit disappointed we couldn't use the spray can just anywhere. As I would later learn, the graffiti points are designated by a very faint X on the wall. UV doesn't seem to help you see them, and even with a flashlight they are very easy to miss. When we only had one flashlight to go around especially, and tried to split tasks, this was virtually impossible for us.

4 - Following Clues
All of these seem to be pretty vague objectives. When I tried to find the ID cards by myself, I eventually gave up and couldn't complete the heist. I found two sets of footprints, but both of them led to what seemed like empty rooms. I went through every drawer and looked on every desk and shelf multiple times and never found anything.

5 - USB Stick
The first time I used this, I thought I had dropped it. The usage of this item needs to be a bit more clear. It should tell you that you need to hack a computer first, and it could be clearer that it's actually attached to the computer afterward, because it's very easy to lose. I'm also not sure how to tell what computers you need to use this device on, or if it matters. I just guessed and was apparently right.

6 - The Tablet
Another side effect of this update is how it affected the tablet. The tablet has important tutorial information in it, which was fine when you were guaranteed to have the tablet on you. Now it's a little weird to be a specific item.

Second, I was already concerned that hacking cameras didn't seem useful enough. There are too many dead spaces, and only one map has a camera pointing at the front door. Having to use an entire equipment slot on this now makes it really feel like it's just not worth the trade-off.

I don't know exactly what to do about this, because I don't want every feature to just be on the phone.

7
I hope that didn't sound too negative. The game feels like it expanded so massively and I'm happy about that. It's just that there are obvious growing pains.
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Showing 1-12 of 12 comments
Dan Green 27 Oct, 2024 @ 3:53am 
Thank you very much for your detailed feedback! I agree with you on all points, our priority now is to fix all existing bugs and describe the missions better with more hints. Preferably as a category on the tablet. We definitely want to bring in more balance to keep the game as fun as possible. I think your suggestions are great, thank you!
#1
Shatter 27 Oct, 2024 @ 5:39am 
Originally posted by Cadpig:
Our co-op group had a chance to try out one quick heist earlier, though we didn't end up finishing it. Overall the new stuff is great, but here are some things we want to bring attention to.

1 - Flashlight
<snip>

Suggestions: My preferred suggestion would just to make the flashlight a function of the phone. I know the flashlight has been an item and we have cosmetics for it, so I don't know what to do about that. Alternatively, the lights could cost less power so it isn't so easy for the ghost to push the breaker over the edge just because we're trying to light up a corridor so we can see what we're doing.

Hard disagree. You should always have the flashlight with you, as you never know when the lights will go off or when power gets tripped. Once you finish hacking the computers for data, the phone does become superfluous, since its camera feature is its own separate item now. It's even more necessary than the phone when you have BM modifiers that increase the fog.

Originally posted by Cadpig:
2 - Paintings and the Van
The painting objective is a bit of a problem because once you have picked up a painting, it is packed into a box and you can't check it with UV anymore. We ended up just throwing all the paintings we found into the back of the van.

Speaking of, it wasn't clear exactly where we needed to put them. It seemed entirely physics-based in what would fit in the van. Things kept falling out. Since we had both the painting objective and a package delivery objective, we had a lot of things to put in there.

1000% agree. The fact that the items don't auto fit into the van vexes me. And I also agree with the fact that if you grab the wrong painting without a clear indication that it is not the right one, the objective won't clear.

Originally posted by Cadpig:
3 - Graffiti Points
We were having a very difficult time finding these, and a bit disappointed we couldn't use the spray can just anywhere. As I would later learn, the graffiti points are designated by a very faint X on the wall. UV doesn't seem to help you see them, and even with a flashlight they are very easy to miss. When we only had one flashlight to go around especially, and tried to split tasks, this was virtually impossible for us.

I found them rather easily, but the objective didn't trip when spraying them all. I feel like this is a worthless add on. Re: Flashlights, you can always buy more at the start. I bought extras and left them near the entrance or some other place that was easily accessible, as so you didn't have to schlep back to the van tables.

Originally posted by Cadpig:
4 - Following Clues
All of these seem to be pretty vague objectives. When I tried to find the ID cards by myself, I eventually gave up and couldn't complete the heist. I found two sets of footprints, but both of them led to what seemed like empty rooms. I went through every drawer and looked on every desk and shelf multiple times and never found anything.

I admit they are hard to find, but they aren't in the places you would normally look. I found one in a waste basket, and one lying on a white radiator. I agree this needs work.

Originally posted by Cadpig:
5 - USB Stick
The first time I used this, I thought I had dropped it. The usage of this item needs to be a bit more clear. It should tell you that you need to hack a computer first, and it could be clearer that it's actually attached to the computer afterward, because it's very easy to lose. I'm also not sure how to tell what computers you need to use this device on, or if it matters. I just guessed and was apparently right.

This one tripped me up because I thought they were one use only. I bought four, just in case. I also didn't know you can retrieve them from the PC after they've infected the PC. More you know. I agree that this needs more explanation.

Originally posted by Cadpig:
6 - The Tablet
Another side effect of this update is how it affected the tablet. The tablet has important tutorial information in it, which was fine when you were guaranteed to have the tablet on you. Now it's a little weird to be a specific item.

Second, I was already concerned that hacking cameras didn't seem useful enough. There are too many dead spaces, and only one map has a camera pointing at the front door. Having to use an entire equipment slot on this now makes it really feel like it's just not worth the trade-off.

Yep, this update made camera hacking useless. I also agree that the cameras have way too many dead zones. The Bank has one camera on the second floor that makes it valuable to see when the hunt is over, other than that, the cameras don't really work that well. The tablet definitely needs an explanation on how to get into the secured room because "following the clues" just isn't cutting it. I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to get in, and I simply gave up, wasting a run and nearly an hour of my time because it was a prerequisite objective.

My additional thoughts:

HUNTS ARE WAY TOO SHORT NOW. In the original, they would prompt a mad dash for hiding places. Now? Eh, it's just an annoyance. I know BM modifiers can lengthen it, but the hunts only lasting like 20 seconds? That leaves no tension whatsoever.

Bats: Like the idea, but has extremely limited value. It seems a waste for one specific purpose only. Unless you add additional things for it to be used for, I wouldn't bother with it.

Overall, I do like the changes, but some need better explanation and some need work.

:BEheart:




Last edited by Shatter; 27 Oct, 2024 @ 5:39am
#2
Funreaver 27 Oct, 2024 @ 11:36am 
Having usually played this game solo with all the new tools and the limit to 4 items, of which from my point flashlight and smartphone are a must, feels just way more difficult to go for the bonus objectives. Even on normal.

Without the tablet the fun of hacking the cameras is gone, it was always fun to check if the
entity is near the hiding spot. :D

Will play some more rounds but overall I think the update upped the difficulty for solo, because time is against you anyway. And now you have to get back out and back in to grab things or deliver stuff.
#3
Dan Green 27 Oct, 2024 @ 12:00pm 
Originally posted by Funreaver:
Having usually played this game solo with all the new tools and the limit to 4 items, of which from my point flashlight and smartphone are a must, feels just way more difficult to go for the bonus objectives. Even on normal.

Without the tablet the fun of hacking the cameras is gone, it was always fun to check if the
entity is near the hiding spot. :D

Will play some more rounds but overall I think the update upped the difficulty for solo, because time is against you anyway. And now you have to get back out and back in to grab things or deliver stuff.

That's exactly why we released another update a few hours ago that allows the use of multi-tools again and replaces a main task with a bonus task. This means that as a solo player you are now always able to complete all missions with 4 items :D But I understand what you mean! We will continue to adjust the balance and with the upgrade system later, it will be even easier! (New difficulty levels will be added :D)
#4
Funreaver 27 Oct, 2024 @ 12:53pm 
I really liked the hacking the server room with biometrics so far.
The graffiti is alright I was always curious to see what gets sprayed on the wall. ;)
The baseballbat for entity orb and vitrine with extra loot was also alright.

Currently struggleing to get the 4 packages to the van. I found two but sometimes I think they are hard to spot compared to a lot of delivery boxes standing around that are not the thing needed. But I play it slow and smart so it should work and I should be able to find the missing 2. Ok the "fragile" helps :D now only one missing.
Went through the map like 3 times and still not found the 4th one.

The third was right at the beginning before I knew how they look, but that last one... :D
Fourth one had a completely different shape than the other three and no fragile but some this way up arrows... finally I can leave this mission :D

Find hidden message and use Sprayon then take photo, was unsure what sprayon is but used the spray on the marked spot and then took a photo with smartphone.

Find the two manager ID cards by following footprints in UV, never found them (the footprints and the IDs), tried with UV mode of normal flashlight. :(
Last edited by Funreaver; 27 Oct, 2024 @ 2:45pm
#5
Shatter 27 Oct, 2024 @ 5:49pm 
Originally posted by Funreaver:
I really liked the hacking the server room with biometrics so far.
The graffiti is alright I was always curious to see what gets sprayed on the wall. ;)
The baseballbat for entity orb and vitrine with extra loot was also alright.

Currently struggleing to get the 4 packages to the van. I found two but sometimes I think they are hard to spot compared to a lot of delivery boxes standing around that are not the thing needed. But I play it slow and smart so it should work and I should be able to find the missing 2. Ok the "fragile" helps :D now only one missing.
Went through the map like 3 times and still not found the 4th one.

The third was right at the beginning before I knew how they look, but that last one... :D
Fourth one had a completely different shape than the other three and no fragile but some this way up arrows... finally I can leave this mission :D

Find hidden message and use Sprayon then take photo, was unsure what sprayon is but used the spray on the marked spot and then took a photo with smartphone.

Find the two manager ID cards by following footprints in UV, never found them (the footprints and the IDs), tried with UV mode of normal flashlight. :(


Again, the IDs are really hard to find. They'll be either lying on books, in a waste basket, or on a chair. They are very annoying.
#6
Cadpig 27 Oct, 2024 @ 10:35pm 
There's certainly a learning curve in that Midnight Heist previously had mostly generic objectives. Computers are everywhere. The optional stuff could be a little harder, but the main objective was impossible to miss. Now the primary objectives can be a lot more specific.

The hunt also complicates things. It wasn't so bad when you knew what you were doing and could make sure a hiding spot was nearby. When you're already not exactly sure what you're looking for, having to stop the search every minute can get frustrating fast.

I'm confident this will get ironed out though.
#7
Dan Green 28 Oct, 2024 @ 5:54am 
Originally posted by Cadpig:
There's certainly a learning curve in that Midnight Heist previously had mostly generic objectives. Computers are everywhere. The optional stuff could be a little harder, but the main objective was impossible to miss. Now the primary objectives can be a lot more specific.

The hunt also complicates things. It wasn't so bad when you knew what you were doing and could make sure a hiding spot was nearby. When you're already not exactly sure what you're looking for, having to stop the search every minute can get frustrating fast.

I'm confident this will get ironed out though.

That's true! We've also updated the in-game guide so that you can find more hints and tips if you get stuck. We will also continue to work on adjustments and changes to find a better balance!
#8
Funreaver 30 Oct, 2024 @ 2:20pm 
You might want to check the tutorial again, some things are now odd and it seems to crash from time to time on completion, there is now a negative review by someone else, my brother also had the freeze happen to him, he heared the audio and car leaving but could no longer interact with the game. I assue something broke there. Last thing he recalled was having the tablet in hand.

Also it stated you open doors with the phone, while the first one needs now lockpick. :D
Last edited by Funreaver; 30 Oct, 2024 @ 5:41pm
#9
Dan Green 30 Oct, 2024 @ 3:05pm 
Originally posted by Funreaver:
You might want to check the tutorial again, some things are now odd and it seems to crash from time to time on completion, there is now a negative review by someone else, my borther also had the freeze happen to him, he heared the audio and car leaving but could no longer interact with the game. I assue something broke there. Last thing he recalled was having the tablet in hand.

Also it stated you open doors with the phone, while the first one needs now lockpick. :D

Thanks for the hint! We've already fixed the bug with the freezing, but you're absolutely right about the tutorial, unfortunately we haven't been able to extend it yet, but we'll do it soon!
#10
Funreaver 30 Oct, 2024 @ 4:21pm 
Still love the game and really like the additions.

Regarding the follow the UV Tracks, I would either have them all the way to the start of the map so you actually are following the tracks as described or change the hint / guide to check the floor before each door leading to a room for UV footprints as they are only relatively close to the rooms in question. Further I only managed to find 1/2 so far. It was well hidden but I could find it. The other one I never found and gave up after 20 mins+ since the entity was constantly interrupting the search as it took me so long and I kept this one for last. :D
(in case it helps, the map was "CemaX Agency South" and the rooms were top floor in which the card was hidden in a standing folder holder and the room where I did not find the card was in the basement the room with the single desk in the center and lots of drawers / cupboards all around)

I would appreciate either a last footprint in the room pointing in the general direction of the card or a perk such as the black market highlight one that can sense these objects and usb drives. ;)

Something I would like is a different screen effect or message on devices that were hacked AND infected. :D

Funny side mark, the entity cut the power wile I was infecting a system and when I turned the power back on the stick was still in the PC but not infecting anymore, had to plug it out and in again. ;)

Played the hacker hideout map and it seems for this one lockpicks are really important to even get in and with the gear and car quite a bit off for a solo this one is a lot of walking.
workaround was hauling all the gear closer to the entrance.

The noise some doors make when they can be picked is the same as the noise doors make that cant be lockpicked. I would prefer to either have more indication if a door can be picked (like a message, needs lockpick to open) or a different audio clue that conveys the message this can't be lockpicked.

Further, really like the new entities, there is now a nice variation.
Hate (but kind of in a good way) the fast ones and the very noise sensitive ones, love the big stompy one.


Awesome the Halloween update just dropped.
Sweet new clothing items, really like that they are for all chars.
I only have one issue, I bought the item "Long Shirt Beige" that was for me in the Collection view marked as discounted and it also seems to be in the "Sale"area accordingly but over there the button to buy is still shown despite me owning it already.
Did you add more fog in the main menu by chance? The Wardrobe area from main menu has the character barely visible in all the fog. :D
Expecially Kate in dark green clothing.
In the wardrobe from lobby PC its still fine.
But why are Darryl and Elija still the only ones that have gloves... :D
Even the ones that were unlocked with the operation are only for them, while the mask can be worn by all.
Last edited by Funreaver; 30 Oct, 2024 @ 6:02pm
#11
Dan Green 2 Nov, 2024 @ 11:40am 
Originally posted by Funreaver:
Still love the game and really like the additions.

Regarding the follow the UV Tracks, I would either have them all the way to the start of the map so you actually are following the tracks as described or change the hint / guide to check the floor before each door leading to a room for UV footprints as they are only relatively close to the rooms in question. Further I only managed to find 1/2 so far. It was well hidden but I could find it. The other one I never found and gave up after 20 mins+ since the entity was constantly interrupting the search as it took me so long and I kept this one for last. :D
(in case it helps, the map was "CemaX Agency South" and the rooms were top floor in which the card was hidden in a standing folder holder and the room where I did not find the card was in the basement the room with the single desk in the center and lots of drawers / cupboards all around)

I would appreciate either a last footprint in the room pointing in the general direction of the card or a perk such as the black market highlight one that can sense these objects and usb drives. ;)

Something I would like is a different screen effect or message on devices that were hacked AND infected. :D

Funny side mark, the entity cut the power wile I was infecting a system and when I turned the power back on the stick was still in the PC but not infecting anymore, had to plug it out and in again. ;)

Played the hacker hideout map and it seems for this one lockpicks are really important to even get in and with the gear and car quite a bit off for a solo this one is a lot of walking.
workaround was hauling all the gear closer to the entrance.

The noise some doors make when they can be picked is the same as the noise doors make that cant be lockpicked. I would prefer to either have more indication if a door can be picked (like a message, needs lockpick to open) or a different audio clue that conveys the message this can't be lockpicked.

Further, really like the new entities, there is now a nice variation.
Hate (but kind of in a good way) the fast ones and the very noise sensitive ones, love the big stompy one.


Awesome the Halloween update just dropped.
Sweet new clothing items, really like that they are for all chars.
I only have one issue, I bought the item "Long Shirt Beige" that was for me in the Collection view marked as discounted and it also seems to be in the "Sale"area accordingly but over there the button to buy is still shown despite me owning it already.
Did you add more fog in the main menu by chance? The Wardrobe area from main menu has the character barely visible in all the fog. :D
Expecially Kate in dark green clothing.
In the wardrobe from lobby PC its still fine.
But why are Darryl and Elija still the only ones that have gloves... :D
Even the ones that were unlocked with the operation are only for them, while the mask can be worn by all.

Thank you very much for your detailed feedback!

We will definitely continue to work on adjustments and improvements so that the tasks are even smoother :D The possibility that every character can wear everything will also be adjusted in the future, this was a very difficult topic at the beginning of development and even today it still costs a lot of time, which we would like to put into more content first. The fog in the main menu is actually unchanged, but an improved view for it is already planned!

By the way, infected computers/laptops and servers are displayed with three “virus” symbols on the screen! :D

Many thanks for the support!
#12
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Date Posted: 27 Oct, 2024 @ 12:14am
Posts: 12

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