If you mean the reboot, we’ll, it wasn’t ALL bad. There is a couple decent ideas there but if I am to compared the whole package to the old games and especially thief 2 then there is no way I could ever see the reboot as the superior option.

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

If you mean the reboot, we’ll, it wasn’t ALL bad. There is a couple decent ideas there but if I am to compared the whole package to the old games and especially thief 2 then there is no way I could ever see the reboot as the superior option.

I just mean the voice of Garrett didnt annoy me in Thief 4, so main reason. But gameplay wise it does seem to be better after tutorial section. I do hope they have more obstacles and enemies after first stage. Currently at Clock Tower, but its cool so far!

Originally posted by Lars:

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

If you mean the reboot, we’ll, it wasn’t ALL bad. There is a couple decent ideas there but if I am to compared the whole package to the old games and especially thief 2 then there is no way I could ever see the reboot as the superior option.

I just mean the voice of Garrett didnt annoy me in Thief 4, so main reason. But gameplay wise it does seem to be better after tutorial section. I do hope they have more obstacles and enemies after first stage. Currently at Clock Tower, but its cool so far!

The worse part of it is quite honestly the story. The levels are also extremely simple compared to thief 1-2 and has less overall options for the players. And, as weird as it sound, the whole “hands” thing while immersive does add up over time to the point of being an annoyance.

mm-hmm
can't step over a crack in the pavement. = fail.

Oh, there's more, I just don't have the time or incentive to type the 20 pages..

I was delighted early in the game to be presented with the choice to either
continue or kill myself. - I gratefully chose the latter and declared success !
I met and beat the game at it's own level. - cheap !

Don't get confused - I'm not critiquing you - I'm slamming the game that never
had the substance to bear the name of the originals

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Originally posted by Lars:

I just mean the voice of Garrett didnt annoy me in Thief 4, so main reason. But gameplay wise it does seem to be better after tutorial section. I do hope they have more obstacles and enemies after first stage. Currently at Clock Tower, but its cool so far!

The worse part of it is quite honestly the story. The levels are also extremely simple compared to thief 1-2 and has less overall options for the players. And, as weird as it sound, the whole “hands” thing while immersive does add up over time to the point of being an annoyance.

The only good level. Was the first level. Basically they should have just focused on, locations, guards, steal, objective and thats it. I dont get why they felt the need to include magic dinosaurs of all things. Its bad enough with zombies (the only place i felt it fitted was the graveyard in one level of the game)

With every game it's whether the pluses outweigh the minuses.

If I compare the two games side by side T1 and 2 slaughter T4 in every category.
Some levels in the originals I just hate, mostly some of the underground. - The Guild
mission that wasn't in the original but added in the later T Gold is a complete dud.

Hated some where they use of some wacky AI, but over all the pluses outweigh the
minuses a dozen times over. - I'd never let the protagonists voice get in the way of
a good game, and Garret speaks very little, mostly just used for the narrative at the
start of each mission.

Doing the most basic side by side comparisons..


Character
Movement -
T1&2 - Can leap and Loft.

T4 - Nope. - Can't even step over a floor tile.

Abilities -
T1&2 - Use Rope arrows - Climb ropes - Leap from one rope to another
--------Stack and throw Crates - Climb crates - "Drop-Stack" enough to reach 3rd floor.

T4 - None of the above.

Tools - No comparison

Level Design -
T1&2 - Couldn't ask for a more varied immersive experience. Many have multiple
------- pathways and different ways to complete. Realistic spaces are all finely detailed

T4 - Drab sameness, exhausting grey and tan. Blockades and barriers at every turn.

Atmosphere -
T1&2 - Densely rich, tension filled - extremely varied.

T4 - Note the above.

Story -
T1&2 - Intriguing mystery, only solved by reading everything and overheard conversation

T4 - ???

Lastly (my favorite) Puzzles -
T1&2 - Usually one or two interesting puzzles at most, some missions have none.

T4 - Practically every five steps you take. The missions are littered with them constantly
impeding your progress, and aren't even logically connected to the mechanics of the
level - as they are in the originals. - The Library was a masterpiece - spend 20 minutes
solving a puzzle just to enter a little room with another puzzle - followed by another.

The originals had fine stealth. It was a stealth game with a few puzzles - logically
placed and implemented.

T4 - is a messed up puzzle game (having to cross the same repopulated area around
the clock tower multiple times) with little stealth, crippled abilities and offers up zero
reward to make up for players efforts in making progress.

The scales are heavily tipped, my friend.

Fine that you like it better. I'm happy for you that you're enjoying it - but comparing
one to the other.. - I think you're outta gas on this one..


- Thanks for the feed, and - Best Wishes -


T1&2 Crew
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/groups/T1-2C

Originally posted by thirdkeeper:

With every game it's whether the pluses outweigh the minuses.

If I compare the two games side by side T1 and 2 slaughter T4 in every category.
Some levels in the originals I just hate, mostly some of the underground. - The Guild
mission that wasn't in the original but added in the later T Gold is a complete dud.

Hated some where they use of some wacky AI, but over all the pluses outweigh the
minuses a dozen times over. - I'd never let the protagonists voice get in the way of
a good game, and Garret speaks very little, mostly just used for the narrative at the
start of each mission.

Doing the most basic side by side comparisons..


Character
Movement -
T1&2 - Can leap and Loft.

T4 - Nope. - Can't even step over a floor tile.

Abilities -
T1&2 - Use Rope arrows - Climb ropes - Leap from one rope to another
--------Stack and throw Crates - Climb crates - "Drop-Stack" enough to reach 3rd floor.

T4 - None of the above.

Tools - No comparison

Level Design -
T1&2 - Couldn't ask for a more varied immersive experience. Many have multiple
------- pathways and different ways to complete. Realistic spaces are all finely detailed

T4 - Drab sameness, exhausting grey and tan. Blockades and barriers at every turn.

Atmosphere -
T1&2 - Densely rich, tension filled - extremely varied.

T4 - Note the above.

Story -
T1&2 - Intriguing mystery, only solved by reading everything and overheard conversation

T4 - ???

Lastly (my favorite) Puzzles -
T1&2 - Usually one or two interesting puzzles at most, some missions have none.

T4 - Practically every five steps you take. The missions are littered with them constantly
impeding your progress, and aren't even logically connected to the mechanics of the
level - as they are in the originals. - The Library was a masterpiece - spend 20 minutes
solving a puzzle just to enter a little room with another puzzle - followed by another.

The originals had fine stealth. It was a stealth game with a few puzzles - logically
placed and implemented.

T4 - is a messed up puzzle game (having to cross the same repopulated area around
the clock tower multiple times) with little stealth, crippled abilities and offers up zero
reward to make up for players efforts in making progress.

The scales are heavily tipped, my friend.

Fine that you like it better. I'm happy for you that you're enjoying it - but comparing
one to the other.. - I think you're outta gas on this one..


- Thanks for the feed, and - Best Wishes -


T1&2 Crew
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/groups/T1-2C

I think reason i cant stand to play Thief 2 now. Is first one left such a bad taste in my mouth. And besides even if it is good, the voice of Garrett is so annoying.
And oooh important text in each mission, oh wow yeah i dont care haha

But i played one mission just to get a feel of it. And yeah the gameplay is def improved. For example you can strife left and right, basically what modern controls should feel like. Rather than turning like a tank like you did in Thief 1.

So controls i will say is way better in Thief 2. And no magic stupid dinosaurs that whimpers like Barney the dinosaur which is a plus. Now thats a nightmare to behold. A bunch of Barney the dinosaur chasing you around :o

Erm, you can strafe in thief btw. It’s just that the controls are setup more like system shock than a normal fps by default.

You can totally play that normally.

Oh wait. Perhaps that require tfix? Last time I played 100% vanilla with no fix was before my niece was born. XD

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Oh wait. Perhaps that require tfix? Last time I played 100% vanilla with no fix was before my niece was born. XD

I didnt check when i played it, but maybe you are right.

Originally posted by Lars:

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Oh wait. Perhaps that require tfix? Last time I played 100% vanilla with no fix was before my niece was born. XD

I didnt check when i played it, but maybe you are right.

Yeah, it’s a bit weird and I never understood why they used that control scheme. The lack of proper mouse look and the more adventure game style of system shock made it
Kinda necessary but in thief I found it weird too first time around.

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Originally posted by Lars:

I didnt check when i played it, but maybe you are right.

Yeah, it’s a bit weird and I never understood why they used that control scheme. The lack of proper mouse look and the more adventure game style of system shock made it
Kinda necessary but in thief I found it weird too first time around.

Probably before Counter Strike era or Half Life. So when they saw how neat the control scheme where, they probably went with it in Thief 2. Which is basically the right way to play FPS on PC

Originally posted by Lars:

Originally posted by Thermal Lance:

Yeah, it’s a bit weird and I never understood why they used that control scheme. The lack of proper mouse look and the more adventure game style of system shock made it
Kinda necessary but in thief I found it weird too first time around.

Probably before Counter Strike era or Half Life. So when they saw how neat the control scheme where, they probably went with it in Thief 2. Which is basically the right way to play FPS on PC

When was wasd made standard? Just wondering because I was a very early adopter of that scheme. Mainly in doom.

Originally posted by Lars:

I think reason i cant stand to play Thief 2 now. Is first one left such a bad taste in my mouth. And besides even if it is good, the voice of Garrett is so annoying.
And oooh important text in each mission, oh wow yeah i dont care haha

My point is that Thief had a story - intelligently told - through experience, just
like life. - Take it or leave it. - T4? None.

Originally posted by Lars:

But i played one mission just to get a feel of it. And yeah the gameplay is def improved. For example you can strife left and right, basically what modern controls should feel like. Rather than turning like a tank like you did in Thief 1.

You can strafe in T1 - you need Tfix.

Originally posted by Lars:

So controls i will say is way better in Thief 2. And no magic stupid dinosaurs that whimpers like Barney the dinosaur which is a plus. Now thats a nightmare to behold. A bunch of Barney the dinosaur chasing you around :o

They appear in just a few missions out of about 20, are slow and easy to avoid or run past.
You can even leap over them.

- These are all minor annoyances - so far you've mentioned only 2 that are valid in the purely subjective sense. - You sure that's enough to kybosh the originals?

Are you sure you want to continue making comparisons?

"ha-ha"? - I wouldn't be laughing, you're missing out on the finest.

- Best of Luck -


T1&2 Crew
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/groups/T1-2C

Originally posted by thirdkeeper:

Originally posted by Lars:

I think reason i cant stand to play Thief 2 now. Is first one left such a bad taste in my mouth. And besides even if it is good, the voice of Garrett is so annoying.
And oooh important text in each mission, oh wow yeah i dont care haha

My point is that Thief had a story - intelligently told - through experience, just
like life. - Take it or leave it. - T4? None.

Originally posted by Lars:

But i played one mission just to get a feel of it. And yeah the gameplay is def improved. For example you can strife left and right, basically what modern controls should feel like. Rather than turning like a tank like you did in Thief 1.

You can strafe in T1 - you need Tfix.

Originally posted by Lars:

So controls i will say is way better in Thief 2. And no magic stupid dinosaurs that whimpers like Barney the dinosaur which is a plus. Now thats a nightmare to behold. A bunch of Barney the dinosaur chasing you around :o

They appear in just a few missions out of about 20, are slow and easy to avoid or run past.
You can even leap over them.

- These are all minor annoyances - so far you've mentioned only 2 that are valid in the purely subjective sense. - You sure that's enough to kybosh the originals?

Are you sure you want to continue making comparisons?

"ha-ha"? - I wouldn't be laughing, you're missing out on the finest.

- Best of Luck -


T1&2 Crew
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/groups/T1-2C

One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.