Antonblast

Antonblast

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NoiziHonni 11 Dec, 2024 @ 10:36pm
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Combo Chain: Well-Designed or Poorly Thought Out
I saw a thread on Reddit regarding this mode, so I wanna see if people share similar sentiments or not. Original link to the thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ANTONBLAST/comments/1hbd80w/feelings_on_combo_chain/

Anywho, what are your thoughts on the Combo Chain mode? Is it well-thought out or a mess? (Keep in mind the mode was apparently a late addition too, so judge it based on that as well.)

I'm... personally mixed on the mode. Concept-wise, it's a great expansion on the whole "destruction" aspect of the entire game. And on some levels, it's... fine. Levels like Bomb Candy Mines and Concrete Jungle feel alright to play on and manage.

But other levels weren't built with the concept in mind. Cinnamon Springs is a prime offender here, though really, any long level can count. Cinnamon Springs, as a whole, is based around timing-based platforming, what with the in-and-out platforms and the dragon statues shooting projectiles at you. Mess up just once, and there goes your chance at beating the level, since you won't have enough time to grab enough pick-ups to keep your combo timer in check. Doesn't help that a majority of the problems in the level show up in the last third of the stage, where you also might be hurting for health. And not to mention sometimes the dragons shoot off-screen, resulting in attacks you can't see coming.

Keep in mind as well, I'm not trying to do CRACKED or anything, I'm just trying to get past the mode normally. I get it's trying to make you learn the levels in and out, but other levels don't punish you as harshly for minor mistakes. Not just Cinnamon Springs, either. Crimson Factory is another contender, with its length and punishing last section (Mecha Satan definitely needs to be tweaked.) I haven't even attempted Glasshouse or Deviled Gardens (though it's mainly the Moonits dialogue taking forever to go through that's putting me off.)

Keep in mind, I'm fine with hard difficulty, Hell Manor took a long time for me to complete, but I find it fine to go through! It's a level that bases its difficulty on your skill level, rather than mechanics sometimes playing against you. Meanwhile, some of the problems on this mode feel more intrinsic than anything, and can screw you over without much fault of your own. The two main problems I have are as follows:

1. The damage animation when you're damaged from the combo timer. It interrupts any momentum you have. Picture you're in a level that has a big jump with hazard below, and the combo timer goes off in the middle of the jump. You lose momentum, and end up falling into the hazard. Anton/Annie's hurt momentum is slow, so you can't get out of the hazard. You then proceed to lose all your health and have to restart, due to the combo timer screwing you. Simple fix here: just make it so the damage is registered, but it doesn't disrupt your movement.

2. The health limitation. It seems arbitrary, and feels like it was put in to make the mode difficult without thought on WHAT it'd do as a whole. It synergizes with the first problem to make levels far more difficult than they need to be, especially, again, the longer levels where mistakes are far more costly. Finding solutions for this while still keeping a sense of difficulty is far more difficult, so I've come up with two.
-Remove the restriction on permanent heart containers, allowing you to bring them into the stage.
-Keep the restriction, but allow health crates to spawn. Maybe at a lesser rate than the other two modes.

This should make going through long levels far more tolerable instead of feeling like an endurance test, and should make the mode feel a tad more cohesive.

I'm not a hyper-casual player, keep in mind. I'm at 99%, with all collectibles, a third of the par times, two thirds of the Combo Chain levels done, as well as having completed Skeletons in the Closet and unlocked Paul. I don't consider myself a pro at the game, but I've at least got some experience.

Anyways... any other thoughts on the mode?
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Showing 1-15 of 48 comments
Nin10doLord 12 Dec, 2024 @ 10:46am 
I very much agree with this. Especially the health part. Those long levels are nightmares.
Last edited by Nin10doLord; 12 Dec, 2024 @ 10:46am
Rainy 12 Dec, 2024 @ 8:41pm 
I'm starting to try the combo chains myself

I think limiting your health to just 3 is pointless, I understand removing healing, but maybe replacing it with the something like "Once you reach 100 combo, you get one heal, 300 combo, another, 600 another heal" and so on

Probably a good way to keep your combo chain would be by keeping your clutch boost too
Trash_Bwah 12 Dec, 2024 @ 10:57pm 
I personally think that if tweaked, Combo Chain could be a very fun score attack mode. Maybe having your score have an exponential multiplier based on how high of a combo you currently have, with a hefty penalty to your score if you ever drop it. In this proposed mode, you would not have health, taking damage would subtract from your score, in a similar way to how Pizza Tower's damage system works.

If we aren't trying to rework the whole gamemode, then I think that adding an additional half to full second of wiggle room on the combo timer could make the mode just a smidge more forgiving. I also think more things should pause or slow down the combo timer such as the the cycling Cinnamon Springs platforms. I believe a cannon gets added to a section in Pinball Mire during combo chain that skips the mandatory cannonball jump to get to the spray subarea, so more general level alterations could be used to achieve the type of gameplay this mode encourages.
megabombgamer1337 13 Dec, 2024 @ 7:26am 
As someone who's P-ranked every level in Pizza Tower with both characters, Combo Chain is not fun in the same way going for a P-rank is. The levels weren't designed for it. The mild backtracking required for the collectibles is fine in normal gameplay, but in Combo Chain you have to start rationing the stuff to keep your combo up, and if you accidentally get too much the first time you're screwed. I agree some more tweaks to levels would be better for the mode, such as making the Boiler City spraycan's return dumpster drop you off in the heart detonator room instead of the elevator room. Cinnamon Springs even has extra cannons and stuff in time trial so I don't see why they couldn't be in Combo Chain. I've Cracked the first two levels but it's just very frustrating and putting me off 100% completion so I think I'll just settle for clearing with a full combo personally. The mode is more fun if you aren't going for Cracked.
Brambles 13 Dec, 2024 @ 4:51pm 
2
I stopped trying with combo chain before even getting cracked on boiler city

its a mess, you get no health crates, you are restricted from your extra hp, any tight spaces will ♥♥♥♥ you up instantly, its just a nightmare

i know it isnt right to compare these two, but I have almost 700 hours in pizza tower and have gotten 101% on ALL 6 SAVE FILES (peppino and noise) and I cant even get cracked on the first level of antonblast, I think i am fairly skilled by now, being able to beat all the levels (besides glasshouse) with little trouble, but playing combo chain feels like my first time playing a video game EVER, its horrible

oh and dont even get me started on the god awful time trial pars, -3 seconds on MADMALL ARE YOU ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ WITH ME SUMMIT?? AND THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BIG BATH THROWS AT YOU, JUST RANDOMLY REACTIVATING YOUR TIMER UGHHH

but that could be excused as a skill issue, unlike COMBO CHAIN WHERE ITS JUST STRAIGHT UP UNFAIR, accidently hit the wall while trying to go for the spray in boiler city, no more combo! rolled just a wee bit too late in the same section? no more combo! Been a bit tooo risky so you dont have to play this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ level anymore and you died? Womp womp skill issue little buddy! Just get BETTER, JUST WORK AROUND THIS FLAWED ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MODE THAT SUMMIT FORCES UPON YOU FOR 100% COMPLETION HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

and this is just boiler city let me remind you, I haven't even TRIED other levels, ESPECIALLY MAD MALL OHHH MY GOD I REFUSE TO EVEN LOOK AT THAT LEVEL, those damn slimes in the ball section fill me with so much rage I want to just completely nuke them from the game's code.

tldr: I hate combo chain. :deadjules:
girlmeat 13 Dec, 2024 @ 5:42pm 
I'm conflicted on it. I never liked 'P Rank'-esque stuff in games like this, mostly because of social reasons. Time Trials works because level design is changed or omitted for the sake of speed. That's cool, if a little weird to me. Nothing really changes for these, though, so they innately feel more unfinished. You can count the extra chain pickups, but they feel more like an after-thought. That being said... Eh. I dunno. I'd rather not have it at all than have it remade, or something.
Macario 13 Dec, 2024 @ 5:45pm 
Honestly, I don't feel like this game needs it, I know many hate the comparison to Pizza Tower but this mode literally feels like it only exists for that game and not because it needs it, this game clearly wasn't made THAT focused on that.
Originally posted by Macario:
Honestly, I don't feel like this game needs it, I know many hate the comparison to Pizza Tower but this mode literally feels like it only exists for that game and not because it needs it, this game clearly wasn't made THAT focused on that.
Yeah, I... feel like I'd have preferred it if the game just had a normal combo meter in the main game instead of having its own game mode since I have no real interest in playing that mode. Keep CRACKED status for those who want it though.
Macario 13 Dec, 2024 @ 7:51pm 
Originally posted by God's Chosen Procrastinator:
Originally posted by Macario:
Honestly, I don't feel like this game needs it, I know many hate the comparison to Pizza Tower but this mode literally feels like it only exists for that game and not because it needs it, this game clearly wasn't made THAT focused on that.
Yeah, I... feel like I'd have preferred it if the game just had a normal combo meter in the main game instead of having its own game mode since I have no real interest in playing that mode. Keep CRACKED status for those who want it though.
I don't mind that the combo isn't in the game actually, my point is that the game didn't need it, I like how "traditional" the game is, and not like Pizza Tower where it has no tension unless you go for at least S in the levels.
Originally posted by Macario:
Originally posted by God's Chosen Procrastinator:
Yeah, I... feel like I'd have preferred it if the game just had a normal combo meter in the main game instead of having its own game mode since I have no real interest in playing that mode. Keep CRACKED status for those who want it though.
I don't mind that the combo isn't in the game actually, my point is that the game didn't need it, I like how "traditional" the game is, and not like Pizza Tower where it has no tension unless you go for at least S in the levels.
I just like seeing big number and funny text when I'm doing well, but yeah, I think having a proper health system instead of only killing you by being out-pizza'd by the Hut is why I kinda prefer Antonblast.
If it was well designed then you should be able to complete the level by being at the same pace as the level. The game does not seem to consider the fact that sometimes the levels will slow down, and in levels like cinnamon springs, you basically have to do precision platforming in imprecise ways or else you won't have enough time. Furthermore getting hit by the clock especially during precise sections will completely throw you out of a loop and will likely mean a complete death even if you are at full health.
Last edited by ciswhiteheterosexualmalenumber2; 18 Dec, 2024 @ 4:09pm
Kyezoar 18 Dec, 2024 @ 4:32pm 
This thread is helpful cause I am NOT cracked enough to get 100%, I was struggling with Hell Manor normally until just now
maDEMOman 18 Dec, 2024 @ 4:42pm 
Originally posted by Kyezoar:
This thread is helpful cause I am NOT cracked enough to get 100%, I was struggling with Hell Manor normally until just now
you dont need to do it in 1 combo for 100%.
1 combo is for us cracked individuals who are true masters of the blast. (its just a cosmetic thing)
Last edited by maDEMOman; 18 Dec, 2024 @ 4:43pm
agentxy14 18 Dec, 2024 @ 6:36pm 
I played and completed Pizza Tower myself, so I can both understand and appreciate a perfect run. The difference is that Pizza Tower does not have a health bar, meaning combo recovery is not nearly as difficult if you get hit. Running a ten-minute gauntlet like the Glasshouse or Hell Manor with only three pieces of health and no chance for healing whatsoever, with failure throwing you back to the beginning again, is not fun. It's not rewarding. It's tedious and infuriating to play this mode. Even Time Trial, with its razor-thin margins, allowed some flexibility and frequent healing.

I did note a few things that did help make this mode suck less, and allowed me to complete about half of the levels in that mode, including the aforementioned Hell Manor:

-Clutch Dashes can replenish your combo meter in a pinch--sometimes running back and forth repeatedly can keep your flow going.

-Turns out that certain transformations are invincible--even to the combo meter explosion! The Bomb, the Pinball, and the Mech Suit forms all fit this bill, so if you're going to drop a combo for whatever reason, do it while in those forms.
Mentle 20 Dec, 2024 @ 2:41pm 
Any level that features any amount of backtracking feels like you’re almost budgeting out your health. Some of those segments are just way too tight and end up feeling like “ah well, I lost one health here and there’s a backtrack coming up, so I’m most likely gonna take another hit there, can I do this with just one HP?”

Having no healing at all on top of a capped 3 health is insane given the length of some of these levels. The extra paperclip things give almost no combo at all and feel like an insult.

I like the idea, but there needs to be some tweaks to make it fun. Give a combo-centered way to heal, or don’t let the combo run down on cutscenes or screen/background transitions, or just give ways to juggle a combo so backtracking doesn’t feel like ass.
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