okay?

i almost never roll, i just stay still taking hits

Originally posted by achilleas_demetriou:

i almost never roll, i just stay still taking hits

i also don't use the legion arm, like at all. it's slow and low damage, whatever a player loves about an arm, you can out perform it by being slightly more aggressive or using the plethora of throwables. I forget i even have an L2 button when playing, going into NG+3 had the basic starting iron arm equipped nearly the whole time, unused in NG+ and NG+2.

It's a subjective choice of course, some players love arms, hell some players RELY on arms.

same, i know weapon assembling is there but it isnt appealing for me. did once an elemental weapon run but with default blade/handle.
boss weapons are also king for me, the last run was with the "bladegun" and i found it actually strong, overall the dlc weapons are fun and strong

you do you, it's so fun though. Like I love the booster glaive handle but the head does nothing for me, put a head on it that does electricity, it's my boss puppet wrecker. I love the salmander dagger, how fast it is and the fire damage, but the original handle is so short so I whack it on a longer one, money. I can even swap it between a handle with a sweeping moveset for taking down groups vs a stabbing spear handle so it doesn't knock into walls in narrow halls. and it's just plain fun to 'make your own' weapon that then becomes your daily driver. plus you can keep upgrading a head you find early and not feel like it's a waste if you find something else later, you can use them together.
So like, I can conceive of someone not interacting with the mechanic, but it's because you don't click with it, not because it's a poor mechanic.

I mean, Putting a big bonk on a fast handle (like the saw blade or pipe head on Bramble curved sword or dancer curved sword handle) is so fun, but gets a little OP when you start to really invest in it.

The real confession is that someone that only uses whole weapons didn't respond to my thread asking about the worst whole weapon. The coldest of shoulders...

Anyway!

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

Maybe it's my mindset but I can't find IMPROVED functionality for any weapon combo that is superior to it's base composition or there is a better weapon that does what I want by default. As such I use boss weapons exclusively. [...] Honestly I really don't see the appeal of making an UGLY weapon that is a side grade at best

You can easily make a weapon that's better than a boss weapon (super-weapons like Rose Sword notwithstanding). The key is these 2 things:
- Fables
- Weight

The main reason to be unscrewing blades from their handles and making ungodly abominations is because the result has better Fables and stats. For instance, one of my favorite skills in the game is Payback, which only exists on Normals. There's also Clock Sword with Provoke (one of the best damage buffs in the game), Live Axe with Killer Attack (one of the highest-damage attacks in the game), elementals in general (there's no elemental Boss weapons), etc. Get a heavy-hitter combo like Pipe Wrench Handle + Arche Guardian Blade and go ham.

A lesser-known but arguably more powerful effect is weight. Boss weapons are generally slower than their Normal counterparts. One of the biggest differences you can see is Shovel vs. Holy Sword. Holy Sword has a permanent Alter, but that's because the sword mode on it is practically unusable by itself. Shovel is a much lighter weapon, giving it naturally lower stamina consumption and higher attack speed, along with lower damage that's partially mitigated by the fact that its Alter is a direct damage buff.

As a result, take the blade off of Shovel and replace it with basically anything and you have a weapon that is instantly better than Holy Sword.

This weight system is consistent across assemblies, so if you put a really light blade on what was originally a really slow weapon, the result will have much faster attacks. Likewise, a really heavy blade on a really light weapon will slow it down, but it will give it much higher damage on a moveset that's likely still faster than the blade's original.

It's not a sidegrade; doing this right almost always results in significantly higher DPS than the original weapon.

Like this guy said:

Originally posted by soniceris:

I can conceive of someone not interacting with the mechanic, but it's because you don't click with it, not because it's a poor mechanic.

---

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

i also don't use the legion arm, like at all. it's slow and low damage, whatever a player loves about an arm, you can out perform it by being slightly more aggressive or using the plethora of throwables.

Not really, it's just that most of the arms only really get good when fully upgraded. If you don't upgrade your arm, then of course you're never going to use it. But to call them low damage or act like consumables replace them is ridiculous.

Firstly, Legion is not a finite resource, it has multiple P-Organ passives to charge it without needing items. It's completely free along--with legion charges being everywhere--you don't need to waste time and souls running to a shop like you do with throwables.

Secondly... seriously?
- Base arm has so much damage and stagger that it gets some use in speedruns.
- Puppet String is overpowered as hell, especially at max, since the follow-up attack inflicts a knockdown on almost every non-boss enemy in the game, including those giant manticore things near the end.
- Flamberge, Fulminis, Pandemonium, Falcon Eyes, Icarus, and Cataclysm are just massive, no-risk, free damage in every encounter, to the point where they even have use in boss fights. If your legion bar is full, you're going slow.
- Aegis is an exploding shield.
- And Deus Ex Machina is, uhh... you're not using this one are you? If you are, put on Cataclysm.

Originally posted by Netsa:

The real confession is that someone that only uses whole weapons didn't respond to my thread asking about the worst whole weapon. The coldest of shoulders... :RogueIncoming:

Anyway!

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

Maybe it's my mindset but I can't find IMPROVED functionality for any weapon combo that is superior to it's base composition or there is a better weapon that does what I want by default. As such I use boss weapons exclusively. [...] Honestly I really don't see the appeal of making an UGLY weapon that is a side grade at best

You can easily make a weapon that's better than a boss weapon (super-weapons like Rose Sword notwithstanding). The key is these 2 things:
- Fables
- Weight

The main reason to be unscrewing blades from their handles and making ungodly abominations is because the result has better Fables and stats. For instance, one of my favorite skills in the game is Payback, which only exists on Normals. There's also Clock Sword with Provoke (one of the best damage buffs in the game), Live Axe with Killer Attack (one of the highest-damage attacks in the game), elementals in general (there's no elemental Boss weapons), etc. Get a heavy-hitter combo like Pipe Wrench Handle + Arche Guardian Blade and go ham.

A lesser-known but arguably more powerful effect is weight. Boss weapons are generally slower than their Normal counterparts. One of the biggest differences you can see is Shovel vs. Holy Sword. Holy Sword has a permanent Alter, but that's because the sword mode on it is practically unusable by itself. Shovel is a much lighter weapon, giving it naturally lower stamina consumption and higher attack speed, along with lower damage that's partially mitigated by the fact that its Alter is a direct damage buff.

As a result, take the blade off of Shovel and replace it with basically anything and you have a weapon that is instantly better than Holy Sword.

This weight system is consistent across assemblies, so if you put a really light blade on what was originally a really slow weapon, the result will have much faster attacks. Likewise, a really heavy blade on a really light weapon will slow it down, but it will give it much higher damage on a moveset that's likely still faster than the blade's original.

It's not a sidegrade; doing this right almost always results in significantly higher DPS than the original weapon.

Like this guy said:

Originally posted by soniceris:

I can conceive of someone not interacting with the mechanic, but it's because you don't click with it, not because it's a poor mechanic.

---

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

i also don't use the legion arm, like at all. it's slow and low damage, whatever a player loves about an arm, you can out perform it by being slightly more aggressive or using the plethora of throwables.

Not really, it's just that most of the arms only really get good when fully upgraded. If you don't upgrade your arm, then of course you're never going to use it. But to call them low damage or act like consumables replace them is ridiculous.

Firstly, Legion is not a finite resource, it has multiple P-Organ passives to charge it without needing items. It's completely free along--with legion charges being everywhere--you don't need to waste time and souls running to a shop like you do with throwables.

Secondly... seriously?
- Base arm has so much damage and stagger that it gets some use in speedruns.
- Puppet String is overpowered as hell, especially at max, since the follow-up attack inflicts a knockdown on almost every non-boss enemy in the game, including those giant manticore things near the end.
- Flamberge, Fulminis, Pandemonium, Falcon Eyes, Icarus, and Cataclysm are just massive, no-risk, free damage in every encounter, to the point where they even have use in boss fights. If your legion bar is full, you're going slow.
- Aegis is an exploding shield.
- And Deus Ex Machina is, uhh... you're not using this one are you? If you are, put on Cataclysm.

For the following, i consider trash mobs actual trash, if it takes one heavy hit or a heavy+light hits to KO, it's faster to just Sprint Heavy strike to a light strike then using a legion
For the legions,

• Puppet String can and often does get interrupted during the rising animation to slam down, yes it smashes trash, but i smash trash anyways without it. Extra steps.
  
  
• Fulminis (electric one i think) is very close range and is easily interrupted by it's slow charge, slow movement movement and slow starting animation for a subpar shock effect.
  
  
• Flamberge is great for carcasses, but only because it can set them a flame, it doesn't cause flinching so at best it can start a fire, not sustain it. It melts trash but anything with some beef, not bosses, will only get lit up with a dot. In the time it took to set it on fire, I've already smashed it or thrown Thermite at it which i have about 1000 in my storage
  
  
• Pandemonium has it's place, mainly for coating the ground of stunned or down bosses for the debuff to armor, good for speed runs on higher difficulties I'm certain since removing armor is nice, but I can just as easily throw acid, belt slots are plentiful
  
  
• Falcon Eyes pre-DLC was one of the few ranged options but is immediately replaced by Hornbow in dlc, it also locks you in place when charging, losing mobility unless I dodge fire. Low damage for it's speed (900'ish), very slow static charge, lack of mobility unless dodge firing
  
  
• Icarus is actually really good for getting Arm of God amulet stacks to full, it's damage is only viable against trash, and puppets are resistant to slash usually. The return to damage boost or legion dmg amulet barely makes a difference
  
  
• Aegis is great if you can't perfect block like a sekiro speed runner, I am pretty decent at that though, it's explosive knockback and retaliation has a huge issue in that it doesn't flinch dangerous enemies (alchemists) and enemies with higher stagger limits, so while you are animation locked for half a second before you slam forward, non-trash enemies will follow through with their second attack and knock your ass out of it and you can't roll out of the animation, I get hit way too often to the FOLLOWUP attacks from enemies who trigger the blast back before i can retaliate. I used it in NG, and stopped when it didn't retaliate on bosses or heavier enemies due to that exact issue. Anything it can be used against for besides blocking, can be 1 shot with a strong attack or the blast anyways.
  
  
• Cataclysm, i hate it. It can hit through walls, which is situational, it's perfect release boost, rarely helpful as it requires a slow charge and perfect timing to release without getting knocked out of it by the slightest nudge, it's charge up time is not conducive in combat unless you extract yourself from the fight to charge. it has decent damage and AoE, but it's a heavily reactionary play style and the timer on it's held charge is so short you have to actively remember to use it from before you engage fight to fight. It's a prep one and done attack, not a spammer. It's dodge back isn't going to do anything against bosses past black rabbit gang since the boss models are HUGE or they are fast as well and close that gap asap. It's a trash clearer for certain, but only that. Looks good, flashy, but little substance, a good opener i guess. But so is a sprinting heavy attack with Death Talon. Honestly in the time it takes to charge, engage and release it, I've already cleared the opponents unless they are elite or bosses. Situational at best, ineffective (skill issue i know) at worst as you miss your shot.
  
  
• Deus ex is universally trash, no surprise there

again it's how you use them, I've fully leveled them up. Once again, for me at least, anything they can do I can do as good if not better, Damage, Damage mitigation, elemental procs, speed kills, mobility.

Yes, the Puppet String clears trash, but trash is trash, it's flashy when it works

Cataclysm hits hard, but so does anyone using a sprinting heavy attack (the shoot through walls though, does have it's uses)

The elemental arms are easily replaced by the literal GLUT of consumables, "Do you guys not have belts? "

Honestly Icarus seems best but only because it lays down a static AoE, is fast as well, and can proc Arm of God Amulet before engaging in melee or can add extra damage to a tough boss fight. Not a game breaker though.

AGAIN ALL SUBJECTIVE, my play style is more Sekiro, Perfect Block / Parry > eventual fatal attack. Rinse repeat.

I've watched amazing speed runs using Puppet String, I've also watched a Pale Nite User speed run NG++ Markiona with no hits using only it's fable and heavy attack move set. And someone else perfect run a counter build using dragon sword heavy attacks on Nameless puppet, which is my end goal i guess, flawless counter runs.

I still don't click with the weapon parts, but mainly because I rarely if ever use fable slots since Extreme Modification Amulet gives a 25% damage boost when they are charged, for bosses I'll drink fable potions to keep it charged up, but fable moves outside of bosses just aren't needed unless it's a cheap counter/retaliate ability (Azure Dragon Crescent Glaive) basic fable can be used to dodge forward/sideways INTO the enemy attack, bypassing every single lingering hitbox in the game usually and it makes your follow up attack special and hit like a tank, it's parry fable also procs Conquering Amulet. If you pull it off you regain your lost fable and your follow up attack does a whopping 50% bonus damage if you have Conquering Amulet equipped. As a fable weapon art It's damage mitigation, safe aggression, and massive retaliation. it was my GOTO weapon on NG from start to finish.
The Puppet Axe and other high damage abilities that do extreme damage during enemy attacks require you to get hit and trade blows. Getting hit, is the opposite of what I do. Higher difficulty bosses can 1 or 2 shot you, trading blows is tantamount to suicide.

I try every weapon as is at least for a few minutes on dummies (mainly while I listen to the records). But combination weapons just never clicked, the attack range was too short, the handle i want only supported piercing and not slashing, it ended up being slower, or lower damage over the base form. At this point I need an objectively set TIER guide on weapon combos ( no not googles BS top 10 weapon guides from 2023 built by reviewers who can't jump in a tutorial) once someone said that acid great sword on a dancer handle carried them through the game, i tried it and balked at how bad it was compared to the dancer blade or the acidic crystal spear normally.

Video guides show these combos and the uploaders have these OMG reactions at pulling 6k-9k damage combos (2 heavy attacks + a charge heavy+ a fatal attack), i pull 19k-30k combos. I honestly don't know why anyone uses these unless it's FEEL over FUNCTION

AGAIN ALL SUBJECTIVE, if you can run comfortably doing your play style, do it. I just play different, optimized damage, speed, counters.

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

Originally posted by Netsa:

The real confession is that someone that only uses whole weapons didn't respond to my thread asking about the worst whole weapon. The coldest of shoulders... :RogueIncoming:

Anyway!

You can easily make a weapon that's better than a boss weapon (super-weapons like Rose Sword notwithstanding). The key is these 2 things:
- Fables
- Weight

The main reason to be unscrewing blades from their handles and making ungodly abominations is because the result has better Fables and stats. For instance, one of my favorite skills in the game is Payback, which only exists on Normals. There's also Clock Sword with Provoke (one of the best damage buffs in the game), Live Axe with Killer Attack (one of the highest-damage attacks in the game), elementals in general (there's no elemental Boss weapons), etc. Get a heavy-hitter combo like Pipe Wrench Handle + Arche Guardian Blade and go ham.

A lesser-known but arguably more powerful effect is weight. Boss weapons are generally slower than their Normal counterparts. One of the biggest differences you can see is Shovel vs. Holy Sword. Holy Sword has a permanent Alter, but that's because the sword mode on it is practically unusable by itself. Shovel is a much lighter weapon, giving it naturally lower stamina consumption and higher attack speed, along with lower damage that's partially mitigated by the fact that its Alter is a direct damage buff.

As a result, take the blade off of Shovel and replace it with basically anything and you have a weapon that is instantly better than Holy Sword.

This weight system is consistent across assemblies, so if you put a really light blade on what was originally a really slow weapon, the result will have much faster attacks. Likewise, a really heavy blade on a really light weapon will slow it down, but it will give it much higher damage on a moveset that's likely still faster than the blade's original.

It's not a sidegrade; doing this right almost always results in significantly higher DPS than the original weapon.

Like this guy said:


---


Not really, it's just that most of the arms only really get good when fully upgraded. If you don't upgrade your arm, then of course you're never going to use it. But to call them low damage or act like consumables replace them is ridiculous.

Firstly, Legion is not a finite resource, it has multiple P-Organ passives to charge it without needing items. It's completely free along--with legion charges being everywhere--you don't need to waste time and souls running to a shop like you do with throwables.

Secondly... seriously?
- Base arm has so much damage and stagger that it gets some use in speedruns.
- Puppet String is overpowered as hell, especially at max, since the follow-up attack inflicts a knockdown on almost every non-boss enemy in the game, including those giant manticore things near the end.
- Flamberge, Fulminis, Pandemonium, Falcon Eyes, Icarus, and Cataclysm are just massive, no-risk, free damage in every encounter, to the point where they even have use in boss fights. If your legion bar is full, you're going slow.
- Aegis is an exploding shield.
- And Deus Ex Machina is, uhh... you're not using this one are you? If you are, put on Cataclysm.

For the following, i consider trash mobs actual trash, if it takes one heavy hit or a heavy+light hits to KO, it's faster to just Sprint Heavy strike to a light strike then using a legion
For the legions,

• Puppet String can and often does get interrupted during the rising animation to slam down, yes it smashes trash, but i smash trash anyways without it. Extra steps.
  
  
• Fulminis (electric one i think) is very close range and is easily interrupted by it's slow charge, slow movement movement and slow starting animation for a subpar shock effect.
  
  
• Flamberge is great for carcasses, but only because it can set them a flame, it doesn't cause flinching so at best it can start a fire, not sustain it. It melts trash but anything with some beef, not bosses, will only get lit up with a dot. In the time it took to set it on fire, I've already smashed it or thrown Thermite at it which i have about 1000 in my storage
  
  
• Pandemonium has it's place, mainly for coating the ground of stunned or down bosses for the debuff to armor, good for speed runs on higher difficulties I'm certain since removing armor is nice, but I can just as easily throw acid, belt slots are plentiful
  
  
• Falcon Eyes pre-DLC was one of the few ranged options but is immediately replaced by Hornbow in dlc, it also locks you in place when charging, losing mobility unless I dodge fire. Low damage for it's speed (900'ish), very slow static charge, lack of mobility unless dodge firing
  
  
• Icarus is actually really good for getting Arm of God amulet stacks to full, it's damage is only viable against trash, and puppets are resistant to slash usually. The return to damage boost or legion dmg amulet barely makes a difference
  
  
• Aegis is great if you can't perfect block like a sekiro speed runner, I am pretty decent at that though, it's explosive knockback and retaliation has a huge issue in that it doesn't flinch dangerous enemies (alchemists) and enemies with higher stagger limits, so while you are animation locked for half a second before you slam forward, non-trash enemies will follow through with their second attack and knock your ass out of it and you can't roll out of the animation, I get hit way too often to the FOLLOWUP attacks from enemies who trigger the blast back before i can retaliate. I used it in NG, and stopped when it didn't retaliate on bosses or heavier enemies due to that exact issue. Anything it can be used against for besides blocking, can be 1 shot with a strong attack or the blast anyways.
  
  
• Cataclysm, i hate it. It can hit through walls, which is situational, it's perfect release boost, rarely helpful as it requires a slow charge and perfect timing to release without getting knocked out of it by the slightest nudge, it's charge up time is not conducive in combat unless you extract yourself from the fight to charge. it has decent damage and AoE, but it's a heavily reactionary play style and the timer on it's held charge is so short you have to actively remember to use it from before you engage fight to fight. It's a prep one and done attack, not a spammer. It's dodge back isn't going to do anything against bosses past black rabbit gang since the boss models are HUGE or they are fast as well and close that gap asap. It's a trash clearer for certain, but only that. Looks good, flashy, but little substance, a good opener i guess. But so is a sprinting heavy attack with Death Talon. Honestly in the time it takes to charge, engage and release it, I've already cleared the opponents unless they are elite or bosses. Situational at best, ineffective (skill issue i know) at worst as you miss your shot.
  
  
• Deus ex is universally trash, no surprise there

again it's how you use them, I've fully leveled them up. Once again, for me at least, anything they can do I can do as good if not better, Damage, Damage mitigation, elemental procs, speed kills, mobility.

Yes, the Puppet String clears trash, but trash is trash, it's flashy when it works

Cataclysm hits hard, but so does anyone using a sprinting heavy attack (the shoot through walls though, does have it's uses)

The elemental arms are easily replaced by the literal GLUT of consumables, "Do you guys not have belts? :rrazz:"

Honestly Icarus seems best but only because it lays down a static AoE, is fast as well, and can proc Arm of God Amulet before engaging in melee or can add extra damage to a tough boss fight. Not a game breaker though.

AGAIN ALL SUBJECTIVE, my play style is more Sekiro, Perfect Block / Parry > eventual fatal attack. Rinse repeat.

I've watched amazing speed runs using Puppet String, I've also watched a Pale Nite User speed run NG++ Markiona with no hits using only it's fable and heavy attack move set. And someone else perfect run a counter build using dragon sword heavy attacks on Nameless puppet, which is my end goal i guess, flawless counter runs.

I still don't click with the weapon parts, but mainly because I rarely if ever use fable slots since Extreme Modification Amulet gives a 25% damage boost when they are charged, for bosses I'll drink fable potions to keep it charged up, but fable moves outside of bosses just aren't needed unless it's a cheap counter/retaliate ability (Azure Dragon Crescent Glaive) basic fable can be used to dodge forward/sideways INTO the enemy attack, bypassing every single lingering hitbox in the game usually and it makes your follow up attack special and hit like a tank, it's parry fable also procs Conquering Amulet. If you pull it off you regain your lost fable and your follow up attack does a whopping 50% bonus damage if you have Conquering Amulet equipped. As a fable weapon art It's damage mitigation, safe aggression, and massive retaliation. it was my GOTO weapon on NG from start to finish.
The Puppet Axe and other high damage abilities that do extreme damage during enemy attacks require you to get hit and trade blows. Getting hit, is the opposite of what I do. Higher difficulty bosses can 1 or 2 shot you, trading blows is tantamount to suicide.

I try every weapon as is at least for a few minutes on dummies (mainly while I listen to the records). But combination weapons just never clicked, the attack range was too short, the handle i want only supported piercing and not slashing, it ended up being slower, or lower damage over the base form. At this point I need an objectively set TIER guide on weapon combos ( no not googles BS top 10 weapon guides from 2023 built by reviewers who can't jump in a tutorial) once someone said that acid great sword on a dancer handle carried them through the game, i tried it and balked at how bad it was compared to the dancer blade or the acidic crystal spear normally.

Video guides show these combos and the uploaders have these OMG reactions at pulling 6k-9k damage combos (2 heavy attacks + a charge heavy+ a fatal attack), i pull 19k-30k combos. I honestly don't know why anyone uses these unless it's FEEL over FUNCTION

AGAIN ALL SUBJECTIVE, if you can run comfortably doing your play style, do it. I just play different, optimized damage, speed, counters.

it makes me wonder do you even know how to play this game if you trash down every legion arm, every mechanic and in same time flexing like you think you are pro.

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

about the legion arms

Funniy enough, my view on them is:

• puppet String -> i never used it tbh. i'm collecting the legion gears to upgrade it for use on NG+, and only to test the unique special attack
  
• fulminis -> i juts love that thing. it's basically EMP for puppets. Charge levels 1-2 are best, lv3 is hard to obtain and has some recovery
  
• flamberge -> my other love. when i get lazy i always have that one equipped. if you can get to the blue flame + blue flmae blast, you're king.
  
• pandemonium -> TO ME is useless garbage. it's slow as hell and area-of-denial pools that stop being relevant once the fight moves on? nope.
  
• the landmine arm -> not a fan of static traps. i don't have the patience and i frankly never used it
  
• Aegis -> fun thing / meh. i stopped using real fast when enemies started to poise-through attacks
  
• Icarus -> another Garbage candidate; i can't discern if the blades stick to the target or don't. If they don't land, it's a wasted attack
  
• Cataclysm -> #1 love. perfect stagger trigger from distance, beside the shotput throwable. just Charge and kaboom. Nice counter-attack damage

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

AGAIN ALL SUBJECTIVE, if you can run comfortably doing your play style, do it. I just play different, optimized damage, speed, counters.

Playstyle dictates what we like to use, but knowledge and perspective dictate what we know is weak and not just unpalatable; it makes sense that you'd find some arms underwhelming and not just uninteresting to play when you write off their value vs. elites and bosses and mostly try to use them in direct competition to your normal moveset instead of supplementing it instead. Arms usually cost no stamina or regenerate more than they cost, supporting this approach.

The fact that you completely wrote off Deus Ex is a shame. It's unwieldy and has a cumbersome weight value, but serves very well during downtime against enemies you know will imminently chase you. You can safely and consistently set up three Deus Ex landmines during some boss transitions, too; try using it against Laxasia at the start of her second phase.

I strongly encourage you to give the ways you're using Cataclysm another look. It's essentially the successor to Fulminis and Falcon Eyes from the base game, both some of the better arms as is. The timer isn't as oppressive as it seems; it lasts a whopping 30 seconds and the charging and firing motions themselves don't interrupt stamina regeneration. Charged shots can stance-break enemies and have fantastic stagger otherwise, and counterhits massively boost its stagger and damage. This all paints the picture of a predictive weapon rather than a reactive one; a universal charged heavy that you can prepare and use (sometimes in separate windows) even while dry on stamina. The dodges while charging only pause stamina regen instead of costing any as well, even being possible when at negative stamina, further entrenching it as a way to keep your momentum going.

Plumber is right about Deus Ex and the other arms.

Originally posted by TAW Derisat Hartfelt:

*clipped for brevity*

In most trash mob fights, you're not fighting only 1 opponent, that's why legion arms perform better than your weapon does. Fulminis can erase an entire group in one shot, for instance. As for your list:
- I've literally never been canceled out of Puppet String's jump. Also, Puppet String has two follow-up attacks, not one. The first is the jump smash, the other is a GUT PUNCH that comes out faster. One is only used when you zip to them, the other is only used when you pull the enemy towards you (which, by the way, also lets you split enemies apart from each other or drag them off the map).

- Please learn how to use Fulminis, it's not debatable.

- Please learn how to use Flamberge, it's not debatable. Dude thinks fire only works on carcasses...

- "I can just as easily throw acid." Now tell me how many uses of each you have without going back to a Stargazer?

- Then use the dodge-fire on Falcon Eyes. Also, it's an AoE explosive, so no, it's not replaced by the bow.

- Please learn how to use Icarus, it's not debatable.

- "Anything I could block, I could just oneshot it instead." Please learn how to use Aegis, it's not debatable.

- Please learn how to use Cataclysm, it's not debatable.

Again, I have to ask why you keep bringing up consumables. How much ergo are you wasting on them instead of using your legion arm properly??? Never using your arm wasn't a good idea in Sekiro, either, you would have ended up taking years to get through encounters that one tool use would have deleted.

"I rarely if ever use fable slots"
Yeah, don't do that, that's suboptimal, too. Azure Glaive being your go-to weapon for the entire game is part of why I hate it when devs just give you a free legendary at the start of the game. It leads to people ignoring 99% of the game and its mechanics, and then turning around to say stuff like "Puppet Axe and other high damage abilities [...] require you to get hit and trade blows", which tells me you've NEVER used Killer Attack before.

You shouldn't need a tier guide, you've played this game for almost 100 hours. You're the one who's supposed to be making the tier guides, but it sounds like you spent all of your time spamming Dragon Sword and Azure Glaive instead of exploring (which is fine, just don't try to weigh in on weapons and arms you've never used before).

You sound like you're on NG+Whatever and it's painting your idea of what a normal NG run looks like. Gluts of throwables from where exactly...? As an experiment, I propose playing a new game to refresh yourself. Without using Azure.

Originally posted by Kalameet:

• Icarus -> another Garbage candidate; i can't discern if the blades stick to the target or don't. If they don't land, it's a wasted attack

They don't stick. The strength of Icarus lies in the fact that it doesn't have a charging time or a long animation, and the blades are AoE. You can spam them extremely safely, just like throwables, for consistent damage that has very high up-time, especially on enemies that don't move around a lot (or can't move).

It underperforms on fast, solo enemies since they just move out of the blade (though they still get hit on the blade's return trip). It overperforms on slow groups since it hits everyone at once and they can't get out of it. Against bosses, it's about average, since the lower per-shot damage is made up for by the spammy uptime.

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by Kalameet:

• Icarus -> another Garbage candidate; i can't discern if the blades stick to the target or don't. If they don't land, it's a wasted attack

They don't stick. The strength of Icarus lies in the fact that it doesn't have a charging time or a long animation, and the blades are AoE. You can spam them extremely safely, just like throwables, for consistent damage that has very high up-time, especially on enemies that don't move around a lot (or can't move).

It underperforms on fast, solo enemies since they just move out of the blade (though they still get hit on the blade's return trip). It overperforms on slow groups since it hits everyone at once and they can't get out of it. Against bosses, it's about average, since the lower per-shot damage is made up for by the spammy uptime.

Hmm, i see. The blades seems to stick for a little time when they collide with an enemy, but if said enemy moves, they're wasted. I really hoped they would work like the throwable (that sticks into the enemy).

Given that, i have to confirm I still prefer the Catactlysm. It's slow (kind of) deliberate damage/stagger output is simply outstanding. I really like the idea of having a "AOE cone of ♥♥♥♥ you"

Originally posted by Kalameet:

Hmm, i see. The blades seems to stick for a little time when they collide with an enemy, but if said enemy moves, they're wasted. I really hoped they would work like the throwable (that sticks into the enemy).

Given that, i have to confirm I still prefer the Catactlysm. It's slow (kind of) deliberate damage/stagger output is simply outstanding. I really like the idea of having a "AOE cone of ♥♥♥♥ you"

To be fair, it is better than the buzzsaw item, but I wouldn't have chosen it over the shotty, either, if I wasn't contrarian. Almost everybody defaulted to the boomstick for the obvious reasons of being a boomstick. A double-barrel coach gun simply can't be out-'d by an SMG.

Icarus circles where it hits an enemy; doesn’t follow them