Originally posted by whatamidoing:

Originally posted by Morton Salt:

Yes and wearing glasses automatically turn you into Nerd. Wait! My genda is Nerd? :o
All that time i live in a lie! I tought me is a boi, now i have been ascended! Now i am pretty Nerd and i kiss Math. :3

Nobody says clothes decide your gender.

Exacly!

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Originally posted by ledRid:

Lmao do you think social construct means imaginary? Bruh I'm not pretending my wife isn't real by acknowledging that it's normalized in our country that she feels she is expected to have long hair and pretty clothes to be seen as a woman. I've had long hair most of my life, and I lived in the country growing up, you know how many times people have made jokes or told me I need to cut my hair because "boys are supposed to have short hair?" hell I've been genuinely mistaken for a girl from the back several times. What about that is "scientific and a clear biological difference?"

But on the topic of "clear biological differences" that's not as clear cut as you seem to think, which is fine, it's not common knowledge how weird people's bodies actually are, but I'll inform you right now. Nearly two out of every hundred people are born Intersex. Intersex is not "I was born male but I identify as a woman" no, it is biologically someone born with variation in their sex characteristics, it might be noticeable physically, or it could be something the person isn't even aware of for most of their life. Take aleksa from boy boy for example, he looks like a man, he identifies as a man (I think), and he was born with male parts. He was also born with ovaries. If you was in his same situation I can't imagine you refusing to identify as a man in any way because "I am scientifically intersex!" In fact, because of things like this, the majority of children that get gender affirming care are the ones you would consider "normal." Another example, Ewa Kłobukowska, a Polish track and field athlete who competed as a women in the Olympics, banned afterwards due to the sex test returning with a Y chromosome. She then gave birth a year later.

You might be thinking "those are special cases, what does it have to do with being trans or nonbinary" and it's got a pretty easy answer, that being that you have absolutely no reason to assume that this variation doesn't also occur in the brain. I'd say a man being born with ovaries is much more far fetched than a woman who, for lack of a better way of saying it, was born with the mind of a man. Someone like this might feel that they are out of place, can't be who they truly are, or any number of reasons that I believe any reasonable person could understand and even empathize with them when looking at their situation from an unbiased view. And of course, the ones who decide to do something about it would be considered trans or nonbinary or whatever.

So to summarize, yes gender is a social construct, and life is a hell of a lot more shades of grey than it is black or white so believing that every person is so easily definable from a glance is not scientific.

Actually it is quite simple and you already explained it yourself. Intersex people aren't outside the binary. They are either male or female with a physical disorder that makes it hard to tell. But like you said, a simple scientific test was run to find out which sex he was. Still very simple. no matter how hard derange activists try to make it complex.

the denial is strong with this one.

Originally posted by Morton Salt:

Yes and wearing glasses automatically turn you into Nerd. Wait! My genda is Nerd? :o
All that time i live in a lie! I tought me is a boi, now i have been ascended! Now i am pretty Nerd and i kiss Math. :3

Willful ignorance actually isn't an argument.

Originally posted by ledRid:

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Actually it is quite simple and you already explained it yourself. Intersex people aren't outside the binary. They are either male or female with a physical disorder that makes it hard to tell. But like you said, a simple scientific test was run to find out which sex he was. Still very simple. no matter how hard derange activists try to make it complex.

the denial is strong with this one.

You say as you refute nothing.

Bold words for someone who seems to spout meaningless statements for half of every point he tries to make. It's like the casual conversation equivalent of gish galloping, except less effective. Anyway, let's "refute" your point. Let's pretend for a moment that what you said was a correct statement and not a blatantly obvious attempt to trivialize and dismiss scientific facts you don't deem as beneficial to your agenda, misusing the word disorder because you want to associate negative connotations with something, and straight up lying by saying "But like you said, a simple scientific test was run to find out which sex he was." Let's pretend like your entire argument doesn't hinge on the need to pretend like hermaphrodites don't exist. Tell me, even if you was correct, how exactly does it function as an argument that people may not, on a biological level, have the mind of the opposite sex they was born as. You've effectively done nothing beyond aggressively misinterpreting words. Social construct doesn't mean imaginary. Binary means two, take your scientific definition of choice on what a male or female is, real human beings exists who do not fall into those definitions, meaning they are non-binary. Since you've taken such massive leaps in logic to proclaim that your self imposed reality is so much simpler and claiming anything outside of that reality is derangement, I am inclined to believe you are in utter denial.

If I understand ledRid's point correctly, if there are physical exceptions to the sex binary, it makes sense that there are psychological exceptions as well. Claims that that doesn't invalidate the sex binary, don't invalidate the actual point being made.

The presence of exceptions shows both the sex and gender binary aren't as immutable as some people claim, and it seems the scientific consensus is in agreement.
If they aren't as immutable as people claim, that leads us to, among other things, question how much of our gendered behaviour is reinforced by the people around us; society at large. Simply put, is gender a social construct?
Again, the scientific consensus agrees that gender is a social construct, as evidenced by the fact that certain behaviours are only seen as acceptable based on that person's perceived gender. As evidenced by changes in acceptable gendered fashion over the years. As evidenced by the idea that someone can be "more manly" than someone else, etc.


To try and tie this back to the topic of the thread, there was no "gender erasure" update. The update merely reflects the changes in our understanding of gender, that the way we look does not necessarily match our gender identity.
Myself and others have also argued that, instead of "erasing" gender, this update has technically added more gender to the game, with the game going from two possible gender representations to six.

Originally posted by ledRid:

Originally posted by Morton Salt:

Yes and wearing glasses automatically turn you into Nerd. Wait! My genda is Nerd? :o
All that time i live in a lie! I tought me is a boi, now i have been ascended! Now i am pretty Nerd and i kiss Math. :3

Willful ignorance actually isn't an argument.

How did you figured this out? :o

And this is why you should limit your intake of opinions from conservatives. The change has been explained over and over, and they're not interested in listening. So just ignore them, and please don't revert any changes.

Thanks.

Originally posted by Morton Salt:

Originally posted by ledRid:

Willful ignorance actually isn't an argument.

How did you figured this out? :o

years of training.

Originally posted by Boss Nass:

And this is why you should limit your intake of opinions from conservatives. The change has been explained over and over, and they're not interested in listening. So just ignore them, and please don't revert any changes.

Thanks.

Ironic as I refute them and you guys just respond with "you are ignorant!", refuting nothing. Not even willing to quote me anymore because you know I'm that right.

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Originally posted by Boss Nass:

And this is why you should limit your intake of opinions from conservatives. The change has been explained over and over, and they're not interested in listening. So just ignore them, and please don't revert any changes.

Thanks.

Ironic as I refute them and you guys just respond with "you are ignorant!", refuting nothing. Not even willing to quote me anymore because you know I'm that right.

You haven't refuted a single thing, though. Your responses have been logically fallacious and whataboutism.

You've been corrected over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge the nuance that has been outlined by other posters. You're a dishonest interlocutor and are unequipped for this conversation.

It's the height of narcissism to think that the reason nobody is quoting you anymore is because you've 'won', or had some irrefutable point. The REAL reason nobody is quoting you is because you haven't posted anything worth a refutation. Not only that, but they're not going to go back on the changes.

You guys can cope, malde and seethe about it.

Originally posted by Boss Nass:

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Ironic as I refute them and you guys just respond with "you are ignorant!", refuting nothing. Not even willing to quote me anymore because you know I'm that right.

You haven't refuted a single thing, though. Your responses have been logically fallacious and whataboutism.

You've been corrected over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge the nuance that has been outlined by other posters. You're a dishonest interlocutor and are unequipped for this conversation.

Except I have been correct. The fact you are saying I'm wrong without showing where I'm wrong just proves my point.

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Originally posted by Boss Nass:

You haven't refuted a single thing, though. Your responses have been logically fallacious and whataboutism.

You've been corrected over and over again, and you refuse to acknowledge the nuance that has been outlined by other posters. You're a dishonest interlocutor and are unequipped for this conversation.

Except I have been correct. The fact you are saying I'm wrong without showing where I'm wrong just proves my point.

This is shifting the burden of proof. The onus is on the claimant to demonstrate their claim. Since you're the one making the claim, you have the burden of proof.

Originally posted by Boss Nass:

Originally posted by What is a Woman?:

Except I have been correct. The fact you are saying I'm wrong without showing where I'm wrong just proves my point.

This is shifting the burden of proof. The onus is on the claimant to demonstrate their claim. Since you're the one making the claim, you have the burden of proof.

I have demonstrated my claims. All written down. Any intelligent and honest person knows that the burden of proof is now on you.
Do you really think if someone comes and claims "this person is wrong!" and everyone else asks "about what?". That it is correct for person 1 to say "what do you mean 'about what?' that burden of proof is for you to explain!"
You really think that?

Originally posted by ledRid:

Bold words for someone who seems to spout meaningless statements for half of every point he tries to make. It's like the casual conversation equivalent of gish galloping, except less effective. Anyway, let's "refute" your point. Let's pretend for a moment that what you said was a correct statement and not a blatantly obvious attempt to trivialize and dismiss scientific facts you don't deem as beneficial to your agenda, misusing the word disorder because you want to associate negative connotations with something, and straight up lying by saying "But like you said, a simple scientific test was run to find out which sex he was." Let's pretend like your entire argument doesn't hinge on the need to pretend like hermaphrodites don't exist. Tell me, even if you was correct, how exactly does it function as an argument that people may not, on a biological level, have the mind of the opposite sex they was born as. You've effectively done nothing beyond aggressively misinterpreting words. Social construct doesn't mean imaginary. Binary means two, take your scientific definition of choice on what a male or female is, real human beings exists who do not fall into those definitions, meaning they are non-binary. Since you've taken such massive leaps in logic to proclaim that your self imposed reality is so much simpler and claiming anything outside of that reality is derangement, I am inclined to believe you are in utter denial.

I like how you bring up hermaphrodites as if that makes any sense. There are no human hermaphrodites, meaning there is no human who has a fully functional male and female reproductive parts. So this makes no sense to even bring up. Remember we are talking about the human sex binary. Try to keep up.
You then ask what if someone has the "mind" of the other sex. But please tell me, what does this mean scientifically? Are you talking about someone's personality? A feminine man is still a man and a masculine woman is still a woman. Unless you mean this person literally thinks he is the opposite sex. How would you confirm this? Men and woman have different brains biologically yet every "gender dysphoric" individual has the brain of his biological sex. Compare this to a schizo who thinks he hears voices coming from the walls. His "mind" is telling him this so should we assume its true that he hears voices that no one else can? Even if we set up microphones that pick up no sounds when he "hears" them. No. "Affirming" these voices to him would be cruel and evil to do. The same applies to affirming someone's gender dysphoria.