I agree. 90% of the time the "Evil" choice is literally comic book level villain "I don't like you. Time to die!" as your initial statement upon meeting someone.

Its still improvement from kingmaker's dealio of having dialog option for each alignment since uh. Well let's just say that LG options kinda sucked :'D

Originally posted by Jackdaw Mask:

Its still improvement from kingmaker's dealio of having dialog option for each alignment since uh. Well let's just say that LG options kinda sucked :'D

I think it's worse because right now there are no nuanced options. It's just ME KILL YOU BECAUSE YOU DUMB for all evil options, etc.

All the lawful options are just purely what is legal in the moment. Say you're a paladin of Tyr (D&D deity but just to make a quick point). You're a frigging paladin of law. You should uphold the law. But you should uphold the law that is just (LG), not just any law wherever you are. You should be able to do lawful options that clearly break whatever law is going on, but justifying it with your external law.

Etc.

Originally posted by XartaX:

All the lawful options are just purely what is legal in the moment. Say you're a paladin of Tyr (D&D deity but just to make a quick point). You're a frigging paladin of law. You should uphold the law. But you should uphold the law that is just (LG), not just any law wherever you are. You should be able to do lawful options that clearly break whatever law is going on, but justifying it with your external law.

This exactly. The whole point of LG vs LN is that Lawful Good tempers the law with empathy and a realization that Laws should serve the greater good.

75% of the Lawful options make your character seem like they got some weird legal OCD, or are really into killing people for no reason. I think one of the worse example is with Sosiel's quest, where the lawful option goes "Kill this guy now he deserves it" when Sosiel's taken an oath to not kill prisoners who surrender. The lawful option is you encouraging someone to break an oath. WTF.

yeah they kinda suck, even more so than most of these type of games tend to be *example, Jade Empire had exactly one interact that actually played Closed Fist how it was described when you talk a slave girl into taking her freedom for herself and killing her slave master, everything else was basically I'm an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and I want to hurt people, the alignment*

Originally posted by AlexnChaos:

yeah they kinda suck, even more so than most of these type of games tend to be *example, Jade Empire had exactly one interact that actually played Closed Fist how it was described when you talk a slave girl into taking her freedom for herself and killing her slave master, everything else was basically I'm an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and I want to hurt people, the alignment*

It's so rare for games to do evil right. You can be evil and not necessarily want to hurt anyone. It's just that you'd do it without a thought if it would benefit you (long term, unless you're chaotic stupid). An evil character could happily perform a good act if it benefits him. Of course there's room for the cartoonishly evil characters too, but it's kinda sad when they're the rule rather than the exception.

Whats funny on doing evil right is the game has amazing evil companions. Daeran in particular is a very well written evil character. Ditto Regill.

It's like Devs struggle to give evil player character proper motivations.

Originally posted by Ghilz:

Whats funny on doing evil right is the game has amazing evil companions. Daeran in particular is a very well written evil character. Ditto Regill.

It's like Devs struggle to give evil player character proper motivations.

Oh yeah for sure. I like the companions. Very varied and interesting evil companions. The issue is the PC options, for sure. They really should flesh out the dialogue options in future patches.

Originally posted by Ghilz:

Whats funny on doing evil right is the game has amazing evil companions. Daeran in particular is a very well written evil character. Ditto Regill.

It's like Devs struggle to give evil player character proper motivations.

it almost feels like there were separate writers for the player and all these amazing npcs.

I came here just to see if I was missing something, it seems like the only penalty for law breaking in this world is death, Im trying to become a lich and I feel like most of the evil option (im at lost chapel) dont typically escalate nearly as fast to murder as lawful does, playing as lawful in this game makes me feel like im playing a murderous lunatic, my god, im lawful in real life, I dont go around killing people who break the law ffs nor think they deserve death and the rare occasions where the death penalty is "warranted" is highly controversial, I feel like antifa wrote the script for lawful since ACAB and all

Yeah for me its a case of ♥♥♥♥ the alignment system when playing even if I'm roleplaying, I can role-play a character based off of their backstory and not the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ contradictory and asinine alignment system, there is no fun with it AT ALL.

I've said this before. To me, many of the "alignment dialogue" options to me sound like this. People complain about evil, but I see the problem around the whole chart. A lot of dialogue options sound like this to me:

[Good] "I am gonna be nice and spare you, ravenous beast that will probably wait till a wee bit later and sink its fangs into me, 2 min. later"
[Evil] "DIE RAGAMUFFIN DIE!"
[Lawful] "The laws of your land seem tyrannical and unjust, but must be followed!"
[Chaotic] "Time to do something unexpected and random! Why not? No reason!"

They often all seem stupid. Look, I may remember better how the alignments were described in pre-PF D & D, but this doesn't seem to follow the system I remember. Good characters aren't always naive. Evil characters don't always act like maniacs. Lawful (LN) characters care about JUSTICE even if not LG. Chaotic characters aren't just like blobs of random capriciousness.

But you are usually often also given a non alignment marked choice. Interestingly, even beside it being unmarked, it OFTEN makes RP/logical sense for the situation.

As I've said, many game systems, TT or C-RPG, are moving away from alignment systems. Faction-type systems are becoming more common. You choose the ethos of a faction to follow. Your actions affect your reputation with various factions. People react to you differently as a result.

haha yah that pretty nailed it

I just got to a point where the "good" option was to tell a companion not to kill the wicked evil hag and to let it go, I was just like wtf is this ♥♥♥♥? like seriously? THAT DOESNT SOUND GOOD AT ALL!!! I mean I actually felt more like a good guy with my evil character in that moment from not choosing the good option.

It really strikes me as odd with what's going on with the dialogue choices for the PC, I mean they nailed the companions, and other than thinking a couple of them are boring I think they all convey their characters morality pretty darn well.

Maybe they needed to have added some dual dialogue choices? so having occasional, probably wouldn't have to be all the time to give the player a better impression, but occasional options like lawful neutral or a chaotic good one, etc. then maybe they could have had more fleshed out and nuanced personalities the player could have chosen instead of it being so generic

Originally posted by waldo254:

haha yah that pretty nailed it

I just got to a point where the "good" option was to tell a companion not to kill the wicked evil hag and to let it go, I was just like wtf is this ♥♥♥♥? like seriously? THAT DOESNT SOUND GOOD AT ALL!!! I mean I actually felt more like a good guy with my evil character in that moment from not choosing the good option.

It really strikes me as odd with what's going on with the dialogue choices for the PC, I mean they nailed the companions, and other than thinking a couple of them are boring I think they all convey their characters morality pretty darn well.

Maybe they needed to have added some dual dialogue choices? so having occasional, probably wouldn't have to be all the time to give the player a better impression, but occasional options like lawful neutral or a chaotic good one, etc. then maybe they could have had more fleshed out and nuanced personalities the player could have chosen instead of it being so generic

Same opinion especially considering some of the options are can be blatently out of character like a response that doesn't have an alignment on it but is worded to be Lawfully stupid which is a VERY stupid thing if you aren't RPing a lawfully stupid character.

Pro Tip: Keep alignments but stop giving us alignment dialogue bruuuuh.