Are we doing this again ? Seelah's character was written by paizo (so it's an official pathfinder lore character) to be the pathfinder iconic paladin (so at the very start of the franchise 15 years ago).

If the original writter says that a lawful good paladin is allowed to do this in his universe, then that's how it is.

Pathfinder universe in not D&D universe, They don't have the same cosmic rules.

Like for example you can't have a neutral or good undead in pathfinder, while it's possible in D&D.

Hey another Seelah isn't a paladin topic.

TLDR: Seelah is what she is and she is a Paladin, and yes if you act like her you cannot be a Paladin in this game.

It's hilarious if one fully respecs Seelah into a Rogue with no levels in Paladin. And yet it kinda fits like a glove. A sort of Mazzy situation going on there.

Why in the world would you think a paladin can't drink?

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Why in the world would you think a paladin can't drink?

Some can't, depends on their vows, but yea it's not a requirement. I think the main issue is she doesn't set the right example as a Paladin. There's various circumstances where she's rather drunk rather than following her deities traditions. Wouldn't say it's a fall from grace action, but it's a head scratcher for sure sometimes.

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Minneyar:

Why in the world would you think a paladin can't drink?

Some can't, depends on their vows, but yea it's not a requirement. I think the main issue is she doesn't set the right example as a Paladin. There's various circumstances where she's rather drunk rather than following her deities traditions. Wouldn't say it's a fall from grace action, but it's a head scratcher for sure sometimes.

all of that is part of her character . shes supposed to be still a relatively fresh paladin whos been thrust into the limelight, not a decade + veteran , and her current character reflects this + her youth , and her growth and questline is all about her becoming a better paladin.

Originally posted by suprpiwi:

why the ♥♥♥♥ is she a paladin, she drinks, never answers in a lawful manner, rather chaotic good. what a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of a paladin which means her powers would fall off

Drinking isn't chaotic. Getting fallen down drunk is chaotic.

Originally posted by DeathStroke:

Originally posted by Razer:

Some can't, depends on their vows, but yea it's not a requirement. I think the main issue is she doesn't set the right example as a Paladin. There's various circumstances where she's rather drunk rather than following her deities traditions. Wouldn't say it's a fall from grace action, but it's a head scratcher for sure sometimes.

all of that is part of her character . shes supposed to be still a relatively fresh paladin whos been thrust into the limelight, not a decade + veteran , and her current character reflects this + her youth , and her growth and questline is all about her becoming a better paladin.

I don't have an issue with Seelah just to make that clear. The only issue I have is that if the KC acts like Seelah they will fall as a Paladin. Most of Seelahs actions are chaotic and good. Only a handful of lawful acts. This will not keep you Paladin for long as a player because of how lame the alignment system works.

Originally posted by hilburnashua:

Drinking isn't chaotic. Getting fallen down drunk is chaotic.

Naw, that's lawful behavior. For by doing so you follow the fundamental force of gravity. A bonavide rule bound in physics.

In order to analyse Seelah you'd have to look at her oath. You have to understand a Paladin doesn't necessarilly follow the law of the place they're in. They follow their oath to their god.

Oath of Iomedae:
- I will learn the weight of my sword. Without my heart to guide it, it is worthless
- My strength is not in my sword, but in my heart. If I lose my sword, I have lost a tool. If I betray my heart, I have died.
- I will have faith in the Inheritor. I will channel her strength through my body. I will shine in her legion, and i will not tarnish her glory through base actions.
- I am the first into battle, and the last to leave it.
- I will not be taken prisoner by my free will.
- I will not surrender those under my command.
- I will never abandon a companion, though I will honor sacrifice freely given.
- I will guard the honor of my fellows, both thought and deed, and I will have faith in them.
- When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender, but I am responsible for their lives.
- I will never refuse a challenge from an equal.
- I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.
- I will suffer death before dishonor.
- I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior.
- I will strive to emulate Iomedae's perfection.

Seelah mostly follows these tenets. So she's fine. Although she should work on setting an example. You can see an interaction where Seelah is drinking with the Crusaders and Irabeth reprimands her.

The issue I personally mentioned before I have is that as a player there's no tenets to follow. You just have to go with a black and white lawful/good acts completely unrelated to your deity/tenets to stay lawful so you can remain a Paladin. Roleplaying a Paladin from a specific order is undoable. I think Pillars did this a lot better.

I'm actually not aware of any paladin oaths or archetypes in Pathfinder that prohibit drinking entirely. Obviously going on a drunken rampage is a bad idea, but there is nothing to suggest that paladins can't drink responsibly.

Originally posted by Minneyar:

I'm actually not aware of any paladin oaths or archetypes in Pathfinder that prohibit drinking entirely. Obviously going on a drunken rampage is a bad idea, but there is nothing to suggest that paladins can't drink responsibly.

As far as Iomedaes oaths this one applies:
"I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior."

It doesn't say do not drink, but I think we can safely state that getting drunk isn't moderation.

One thing I found hilarious and fitting in old Baldurs Gate was how opposed alignment characters could get in a fight and kill each other. That kept you on your toes when forming a party. I love this game and I understand how well developed characters take their toll in terms of how many characters are out there to recruit but I still think that should have been implented in wotr.

To stay on topic: I appreciate Sheela, character, arch and voice acting. Still, she does nto seem to fit (in my opinion) in traditional paladin´s land. She seems a bit more chaotic than lawful but hey, Paizo sets the rules.

They kinda did with Lann and Wenduag. But the conflict between Jaethal and Tristian in Kingmaker did so way better. Ulbrig in particular should have been implemented more violently towards arcane spellcasters. Ember in particular, her being a Witch and all.

Originally posted by Razer:

Originally posted by Minneyar:

I'm actually not aware of any paladin oaths or archetypes in Pathfinder that prohibit drinking entirely. Obviously going on a drunken rampage is a bad idea, but there is nothing to suggest that paladins can't drink responsibly.

As far as Iomedaes oaths this one applies:
"I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my behavior."

It doesn't say do not drink, but I think we can safely state that getting drunk isn't moderation.

Seelah never gets wasted to the point where she can't do her job though, she's has a good constitution.
And she always puts duty first when the situation demands it.

There is only one character in the game that has an alignment issue and that greybor. He should outright be neutral evil, the guy is a professional assassin, follows norgorber, only cares about his reputation and gold and the devs even expanded the assassin prestige class req to neutral just so that we could multiclass him.
And the only reason he's neutral is because otherwise there would have been to much evil chars and it would break the NPC balance gameplay wise (not enough neutral chars).