Since the dlc (which I am assuming was the usual "definitive edition" that comes out on the 1 year anniversary of every larian game) was canceled, I think this game is just about done. So it's far to just give a conclusive opinion on it all.

Here are my final thoughts about the game as it is to actually play, versus the usual analysis in the style of a narrative:


Progression / game loop:

- Game is totally linear and it never opens up.
- Who the hell thought NECESSARY platforming in a game like this was ideal, especially when some jumps require a minimum distance you can only get with 10 strength.
- Maps are actually quite large but any area that doesn't have a main quest target has nothing in it (take for example the entire second level of the grymforge that I didn't even know was there after multiple runs).
- All early sidequests are just disquised endgame main quests.
- All side content is just required content that is missable; and it's quite easy to ruin your first run by always being prepared so you don't have to search every corner of the maps like the quest dialogue insists you do.
- There are a lot of ways to brick your saves or just ruin your desired run "story" by clicking one wrong dialogue choice on accident.
- There is a highly specific order you have to do the game in unless you want to miss content or lock yourself out of entire storylines, or worse put you into impossible fights that you can only win on lesser difficulties with higher level characters.


Bugs / annoyances:

- Too many to count.
- A base requirement I would say for any wanting to actually play is
1) Know there is a TINY button in the bottom left corner that lets you turn off aoe after combat (why it doesn't instantly go off on it's own is anyone's guess).
2) Install the mod that allows you to revive any npc with the revive spell, it will stop you from ruining major quests when you accidentally kill multiple major enemies that are supposed to go to important dialogue at 1 health rather than just die.
3) Install the mod that makes knock a ritual (ALL of my runs had the lockpicking bug) and gives everyone a free mistystep/dimension door.
- without the above, the entire experience is dragged down by things outside of your control.


Balance:

- Every bloody fight is a half hour slog.
- you can actually brick your save by not having dimension door, misty step, or at least 10 strength on your characters due to the required platforming (worst by far are the giant climbing sections all over required main quest areas in act 3, up to and including two giant chasms you have to jump over just to even start the final boss fights).
- Major plot points and massive power boosts are completely out of reach unless you have shadowheart, wyll, And lae'zel as your party; this combination also leads to the most banter as you are going through the world.
- Without doing EVERYTHING you will not reach max level unless you mod.
- All content finished is not even enough to get you to level 20 in the mods that increase the level cap and halve the xp to compensate.
- Class and skill balance is so terrible you will gravitate to specific builds every run unless you are purposely challenging yourself.
- Swords bard is so absurd you could solo honor mode with it, and you basically get free dialogue choices because you can have two dice for every roll no matter the situation.
- The Paladin+warlock lets you have up to 9 attacks per turn.

Narrative:

- There is only one Good path through the game, so every run will be the same unless you are a mass murdering psychopath (and even then you are just getting a barely different story).
- All of the returning characters are either totally different than their previous incarnations or actively insulting to their fans; plus all of the characters from past games that you can get for your party do not have full dialogue trees (not to mention you don't get them until act 3).
- Characters have no reason to exist outside of the story.
- The constant vulgarity and brutality just makes you groan halfway through, it's like being imprisoned in the mind of a very specific type of person.
- All the intricacies of the world exist only to either allow faster traversal on repeat playthroughs or to ruin your first by making you miss major content.
- A large portion of the game either requires a guide or knowledge from a past playthrough to complete without ruining your experience.
- Certain characters didn't even have stories at release.


"dating sim" aspects:

- Despite the general perception of the game on reddit is that this game is a "dating sim," ALL of the "relationship/sex" content of the game is completely missable unless you understand it's an all/nothing thing during the "party" at the end of act 1,
- No matter how a character feels about you, you can start a "relationship" with them by picking a single line of dialogue for each of them during said "party." If you don't, the entire thing is outright removed from your playthrough with no way to get it back.
- male companions get "approval" points at a minimum of ten times the rate of female companions when you play a male character; without even trying to pick options that male companions approve of, they can easily be at 90-95% approval by midway through act 1. For example, you might get only about 5-10 approval points with shadowheart or lae'zel across the entire act 1 if you only choose options they want, as opposed to the 50+ points you get with the male companions even if you purposely choose options they hate (as long as you don't kill innocents).
- Amusingly, karlach gets approval rating about half the speed of male characters, with her being around 75 approval at the end of act 1 no matter what you do (as long as you don't kill innocents).
- karlach has no difference in how she treats you, no matter her "approval" rating, unless you pick a very specific option "I have been wanting to tell you how much I like you" during the "party" after act 1 at which point she's suddenly a raging sex fiend and wanting to be your girlfriend.

With the cancelation of the dlc/extra content it's clear larian did not enjoy working on this and just want it over with.

Someone on the forum or reddit around release time said this game has 1.5 playthroughs of content: The first is under the impression the game is vast and massive and deep, and the second involves instant burnout halfway through when you realize there is only one intended path throughout it all.

As I said elsewhere, Dragon Quest 11 did the "triliogy of games in one" thing years ago FAR better and without all the baggage.

Escrito originalmente por Mister Magician:

Escrito originalmente por Fluffykeith:

Every time he gets called on this point he shifts the goalposts.

One of the main trolls have openly admitted that by just forgoing 4-5 side quest chains, they ONLY got to level 12 at the last bosss.

At no point have you "established" anything because I'm the only person here who's actually analyzed the game as both an experience and looked at the internal files.

I will also not allow you to try to gaslight everyone into claiming that a game that has no meaningful xp, items, or story/lore/narrative inside of the main quest somehow doesn't treat "side content" as essential.

The main quest is designed to be done last. Not only are there LARGE jumps in difficulty between each, the main quest always amounts to something like "complete the final area on the end of the map" with little rewards given and NO STORY. IN FACT DOING THE SINGULAR MAIN QUEST PER ACT LOCKS YOU OUT OF ALL SIDEQUESTS AND ENDS THE ACT!

For a narrative based game, it's odd how not one bit of lore or important revelation is actually given in the main quest. It makes perfect sense when you realize the game IS the "side content" and the main quest is just there to end the act to move on.

All you have done is lie, use tricks, and whatever knavery you thought you could to instantly disagree with me by bad-faith fixating on single, arbitrary points. you have done this for a solid year while having your struggle sessions in my threads, and it's gone.

Only reason you trolls are even allowed to post in my threads is because the block function on steam is on my end. your ultimate goal is to simply hijack the thread because you are afraid of honest discussion.

To that point, I recommend every person who wants to have an honest, rational discussion put all of the trolls on your block list and I will respond and we can talk. I will no longer respond or even acknowledge the trolls.

Escrito originalmente por Punished Jeremy:

"I wont get enough attention if I make a negative review, so i'll post it to the forums instead"

I have made multiple threads analyzing this game.

https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/1086940/discussions/0/4141689926410173681

https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/1086940/discussions/0/4413047708763407031

This is the third and final part of that, and my review for the game is actually positive as long as you ignore the surface level issues often mentioned on the boards. That said, it's a solid 6/10 and Dragon Quest 11 does the entire concept better in EVERY way.

Escrito originalmente por Vixziค็็็็็n:

So you already made an admission of saying this And sometimes people just, don't make great opinions and they get made fun of. Its the circle of life. And then you make comments about skill issue, make condescending comments, talk about goalpost shifting, etc. It's a pattern.

Let's see...something in the forum rules says something about.. Being combative, argumentative, harassing, or rude... I wonder what making fun of people would be categorized under?

I'm interested in the back and forth of the OPs point, what I'm not interested in is people becoming rude and resorting to their usual disparaging tactics. It's clear the OP took the time to make points. Seems to me the respectful thing to do is have a friendly discussion/debate on the OPs talking points.

They can't, they cannot address or even disagree, they just need to silence.

We're long past arguing the facts against the law, or the law against the facts, they are right down to slamming their fists on the table.

My point is that EVERYONE not only SHOULD but MUST block them so we can have a legitimate conversation.

Escrito originalmente por Punished Jeremy:

Escrito originalmente por Mister Magician:

For a narrative based game, it's odd how not one bit of lore or important revelation is actually given in the main quest. It makes perfect sense when you realize the game IS the "side content" and the main quest is just there to end the act to move on.

Well thats just unmistakably wrong and i question whether you are coming at this in good faith if that is your takeaway from this game

Even if the game was just side content im not sure how thats an issue. The question would be whether or not that side content is good or not. You seem to arbitrarily attribute importance to certain aspects of this story and if they dont meet that standard you dismiss them for some strange reason. I dont think a single person is going to agree with you on this specific criticism

Multiple people already have agreed with me here. It's the only rational, common sense position available, or else I would have come to another conclusion.

The simple point is, it's not "side content" then if the entire game IS the "side content,"

Therefore there is no "side content" because the only "main quest" amounts to "I've done all the other stuff in this area, let's go to the next."

Just about all of the busywork or meandering nonsense around the map has direct effect on player power, narrative, and levels.

If you want to experience the story and not be left with massive gaps, you have to do everything. Unfortunately because narrative is the only meaningful content in the game, that means they have to balance xp gains around doing all of it. This is not fun and drags what is consistently touted in game as a "WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE MAIN QUEST NOW OR EVERYONE'S DEAD" into an 80 hour epic slog where you are required to do EVERYTHING BUT the main quest.

It's neither good writing nor good game design to have all story elements be about urgency and a ticking bomb, but then force you to take your sweet time doing nonsense instead.

your entire post is just a rewording of the same bad-faith attacks I have seen for a whole year, you are only even mentioning that term to try to project your doings onto me.

When an entire side's unified tactics are described by aphorisms like "ends justify the means," "freeze, polarize, politicize," and "accuse your enemies of what you do" it not only outs who and what you are, where you are coming from, and what your goal is.

for a side that basically cannot withstand even the lightest scrutiny, outing yourself so publicly every chance you get is just not working for you.

Escrito originalmente por Punished Jeremy:

Escrito originalmente por Mister Magician:

My point is that EVERYONE not only SHOULD but MUST block them so we can have a legitimate conversation.

Blocking people doesnt do anything forum side. It doesnt prevent them or you from seeing each others comments or responding to each others comments. Stop being spiteful

spite is what drove you and a host of utterly indistinguishable trolls to have struggle sessions in every thread on this board for a year now or more.

by blocking you, your posts are hidden from us. Unfortunately it won't stop trolls from being able to post, but it will allow honest posters a chance to talk amongst ourselves without seeing the inflammatory, hateful, and utterly vile repulsiveness trying to distract us from being able to simply talk in ways and on topics you and your status quo does not approve of.

We even have one user here using slurs and demeaning language who insists my thread is "agaisnt the tos" simply because they somehow implicitly assume:
- threads that disagree with them
and
- threads that they don't approve of.
are somehow bannable offenses.

Maybe they are, as all moderation on here is totally arbitrary to one specific side anyways, but it would certainly make for a nicer experience for everyone to block the trolls and just ignore them.

I have received multiple requests over the past year to have my threads be posted on another forum or medium so they can interact without having to be assaulted by the trolls. I wish I knew a place where I could have done that instead, but here we are.

There is only one problem with the "ignoring the trolls" tactic, and that is in my previous thread the trolls started sending death threats after a short amount of time. The forum really allows no Good solutions to any issue unfortunately, but it's the best we have here.