Re-reading the series: Minagoroshi questions and impressions [SPOILERS] :: Higurashi When They Cry Hou

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Higurashi When They Cry Hou - Ch.7 Minagoroshi

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a_sa_ro

har Higurashi When They Cry Hou - Ch.7 Minagoroshi

24 okt, 2020 @ 15:40

Re-reading the series: Minagoroshi questions and impressions [SPOILERS]

For some reason this doesn't have a Spoiler subforum, so I'll be posting this here instead. I don't think any of this spoils Matsuribayashi-hen, but there are still spoilers for this arc and the previous ones in case you haven't read them.

Last spoiler alert

Ok, this arc is devastating. DE VAS TA TING. This solves most of the big mysteries, but there are still some questions that come up... although more speculative in nature that anything else (that is, they aren't questions because the novel didn't explain something but what ifs).

As far as we know, Irie dies in Tatarigoroshi, Himatsubushi, Tsumihoroboshi and Minagoroshi. His fate is unresolved in Onikakushi and Watanagashi, as he is never a named character, but if the characters' fates were the same in the latter and in Meakashi, then Irie lived in the fragments where there was no disaster. However, at the beginning of Minagoroshi, Frederika (?) says that the only three constant deaths in all the fragments are Tomitake's, Takano's (f a k e d) and Rika's, even though Rika is aware of Irie's death by a supposed overdose of sleeping pills. So what happens to Irie in the fragments where he doesn't die? What could change in some fragments that the Yamainu doesn't feel the need to kill him? Or does she know that he lived in the Watanagashi and Meakashi fragments?
During the execution of the Hinamizawa Disaster, Takano is going off about how this is the day that she becomes god and her name will live on forever. However, in the few glimpses we have of the future, she's not widely known. In 1985 (Himatsubushi) she is never mentioned, and in 2005 (Tsumihoroboshi) she is only remembered for her scrapbooks. It's evident that her secret work never became known, but what do you think happened to her?

Everything I had to say about child services I said already in the Tatarigoroshi discussion, so I'm not going to repeat it here. Overall, I greatly loved this arc and it's one of my favorites. From Satoko's struggle to the genocide of the villagers, everything was amazingly written and the answers for the story do live up to the mysteries. Ryukishi really did a wonderful job here.

Senast ändrad av a_sa_ro; 24 okt, 2020 @ 19:47

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fllthdcrb

24 okt, 2020 @ 18:28

Ursprungligen skrivet av a_sa_ro:
As far as we know, Irie dies in Tatarigoroshi, Himatsubushi...

Wait, he dies in 1978 as well?? I guess you meant something else, or just forgot.

However, at the beginning of Minagoroshi, Frederika (?) says that the only three constant deaths in all the fragments are Tomitake's, Takano's (f a k e d) and Rika's

Yes, well, she apparently doesn't know any more of the Fragments than we do. (Actually, I wonder about those epilogues that take place years in the future. Why are we able to see those? Is she somehow able to look into their futures?)

So what happens to Irie in the fragments where he doesn't die? What could change in some fragments that the Yamainu doesn't feel the need to kill him? Or does she know that he lived in the Watanagashi and Meakashi fragments?

That's a really good question. All I can think of is, Takano's entire plan is ruined by Rika dying in a way other than how she wanted. There's no point, logically speaking, in continuing any of it after that. That said, it's hard to imagine just what the actual reaction would be.

During the execution of the Hinamizawa Disaster, Takano is going off about how this is the day that she becomes god and her name will live on forever. However, in the few glimpses we have of the future, she's not widely known. In 1976 (Himatsubushi) she is never mentioned, and in 2005 (Tsumihoroboshi) she is only remembered for her scrapbooks. It's evident that her secret work never became known, but what do you think happened to her?

Who knows? But now that you mention it, it's easy to imagine why she doesn't become famous: (spoilers for "Matsuribayashi-hen") Nomura (or whatever her real name is) promises to help make her famous, but it's probably really obvious to most of us whatever faction of Tokyo she represents just uses Takano, preying on her vulnerability. What are the chances they would actually honor their agreement, assuming they even could?

In 1976 (Himatsubushi) she is never mentioned

Not sure why that point in time matters here. And BTW, "Himatsubushi-hen" is in 1978 (5 years before the main story).

Senast ändrad av fllthdcrb; 24 okt, 2020 @ 18:30

a_sa_ro

24 okt, 2020 @ 19:47

Ursprungligen skrivet av fllthdcrb:
Wait, he dies in 1978 as well?? I guess you meant something else, or just forgot.

Nope, he dies in 1983 after Tomitake and Takano. It's mentioned in the epilogue of Himatsubushi, when Akasaka and Ooishi talk.You can see it here at 18:55.

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Yes, well, she apparently doesn't know any more of the Fragments than we do. (Actually, I wonder about those epilogues that take place years in the future. Why are we able to see those? Is she somehow able to look into their futures?)

I always thought about it as the author taking a license, but in-story it's really a good question. She does say at the beginning of Minagoroshi that she only knows as far as Rika knows, so while peeking into the past seems possible, peeking into the future is harder to explain.

That's a really good question. All I can think of is, Takano's entire plan is ruined by Rika dying in a way other than how she wanted. There's no point, logically speaking, in continuing any of it after that. That said, it's hard to imagine just what the actual reaction would be.

Now I want them to make a story of Watanagashi or Meakashi from Takano's perspective and see her lose her marbles hehe.

Who knows? But now that you mention it, it's easy to imagine why she doesn't become famous: (spoilers for "Matsuribayashi-hen") Nomura (or whatever her real name is) promises to help make her famous, but it's probably really obvious to most of us whatever faction of Tokyo she represents just uses Takano, preying on her vulnerability. What are the chances they would actually honor their agreement, assuming they even could?

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. Nomura does say they want to discredit Koizumi's faction, so after she achieves that she won't care about Takano anymore.

Not sure why that point in time matters here. And BTW, "Himatsubushi-hen" is in 1978 (5 years before the main story).

Sorry, typo. I meant 1986, but now I just checked and it's 1985, so even worse for me lol. I was referring to the last chapter of Himatsubushi, when Akasaka and Ooishi meet up after the Hinamizawa Disaster and talk about the events in Hinamizawa. Ooishi only mentions Takano as a victim in the day of Watanagashi, but nothing about her beyond that.

fllthdcrb

24 okt, 2020 @ 21:00

Ursprungligen skrivet av a_sa_ro:
Ursprungligen skrivet av fllthdcrb:
Wait, he dies in 1978 as well?? I guess you meant something else, or just forgot.

Nope, he dies in 1983 after Tomitake and Takano. It's mentioned in the epilogue of Himatsubushi, when Akasaka and Ooishi talk.You can see it here at 18:55.

Ah, right. I forgot that part.