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Time Attack Rules Discussion Novels
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Time Attack Rules Discussion Novels
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10 October, 2015
Discussion 1: Console, PC
Alright finally, here we go!

For those unaware, before my initial post there was quite a few discussions about the current ruleset and during these discussions it was thought, 'perhaps it's time we re-examine was is and isn't considered legal, and furthermore, perhaps even welcome this vote to more people!'
And so here we are! It's been awhile since 'Da Rules' were set in place, and during that time we've seen fresh new WRs and fresh new faces sinking their times tenths of a second by tenths of a second, while of course staying within the confines of these rules.
Which leads us to now, with these new faces comes new opinions. Perhaps what was once voted 8:2 might now be voted 4:6 and so perhaps it's time we welcome these new opinions and re-examine what is and isn't considered legal.

As stated last time we will be examining each area/rule one at a time. Initially I had intended for the first post to be regarding the OoB area, but after asking around a bit it become clear that it would be the most difficult to tackle due to the many layers that go with it.
So instead with this post we'll be looking at 'Rule 2' area. For anyone who missed it or would like to look it over again, I'll copy paste it here:
"Rule 2: Console (X360,PS3,WiiU)and PC are competing for the same records.
For those unaware, during the game's launch period it was discovered that while in the Plane form repeatedly rolling in a certain direction could actually be faster than that of 'normal' flying. This exploit was known as Stunt Spamming.
Sure enough the devs were not in favor of this exploit and it was ultimately patched by adding restrictions to how Stunting worked in the Plane form.
However, this patch unfortunately never made its way to any of the Console versions.
With that of course came the thought of whether Console and PC should even compete against each other.
Through testing it's been found that the restrictions placed upon the Plane form were as follows:
Performing a Stunt while NOT under the influence of a Boost results is a slowdown.
You have a 'Stunt limit' of 4 Stunts per Boost, performing any more will result in a slowdown. To refresh this 'Stunt limit' simply perform another Boost (Risk Boost, Drift, Boost, Item Boost, ect).
And so with this in mind, looking at the WR strats, it shows that only two maps were affected by this. Those being DV and RL.
In the case of DV, there is one instance of Stunting without the influence of a Boost.
In the case of RL, there is 1/2 (Dependent on whether the player feels comfortable with their angle) instance(s) of Stunting without the influence of a Boost.
How big this slowdown is, we don't have exact numbers. My estimate was <.100 per slowdown (Less than .100 per slowdown)

Because of this there was consideration of splitting Console and PC records entirely, splitting only the Plane tracks, and splitting only tracks that were clearly affected.
Ultimately, for various reasons (was clear PC was definitely capable of competing with Console times, slowdown wasn't that big, had already been competing for years, ect) it was decided that we didn't want to segregate Console times."

So let's get right down to it, what are your thoughts?
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
Saronali 12 Oct, 2015 @ 11:41am 
"Console (X360,PS3,WiiU)and PC are competing for the same records"

Even with the roll exploit? I think not.
Last edited by Saronali; 12 Oct, 2015 @ 11:47am
Saronali 12 Oct, 2015 @ 11:48am 
Even of splitting records, the console records must not be allowed.
Gya100fam 12 Oct, 2015 @ 11:49am 
As someone who owns 2 versions of the game, I'm more than glad to be able to see PC records compete with Console's, which has been the case anyway because I do agree stunt spamming doesn't give Console as much advantage as I thought they would when the PC version was first patched.

My idea of separation of PC vs Console times comes from 2 tracks mainly: Adders Lair and Chilly Castle.

Adders Lair because OOB is possible on that track while it is not on PC anymore, and Chilly Castle for the possibility of using DLC characters available on PC and not on Console, and I don't really believe in locking PC players in using certain characters and not other when they're available to them.

I realized it doesn't really make sense from the point of view of someone that only and exclusively ever played the PC version of the game.

If I were to separate records, it would be these two tracks only.
Equinox 12 Oct, 2015 @ 12:30pm 
I believe the tracks should stay unified as one (as they already are), however I agree with Epona on Chilly Castle with separating the records for Console and PC since there are DLC characters able to be used at someone's disposal. One question, with this in mind, can't that be said for every other course out there? If so, wouldn't all of the tracks have to be separated at that point, or will individual tracks take the split?
My opinion now is the same as it was then. I completely understand wanting to split affected tracks and I'm not against it (though I'm not for it either). However, what I am against is wanting to split non-affected.
There seems to be the misunderstanding that for whatever reasons console boost more, flip faster, fly faster, etc.. This is most definitely not the case.
A flip/roll is exactly the same on console as it is on PC until you hit the criteria specificed in the OP. And again, looking at the WR strats, only two tracks are affected by this.
I personally see no reason to want to end cross-platform competition entirely over two tracks.

@Thino
I don't believe Adders should be taken into the same account as DV and RL. To do the skip you have to aim for a specific spot in the wall, there is a barrier there but what you're aiming for is the 'hole'. But again, you have to intentionally be aiming to go OoB there, it wouldn't be hard for a console player to want to compete for the cross-plat WR and stay inbounds and mimic a PC launch, especially when you look at my PC launch.
Edit: spelling
Last edited by 串刺し公・ヴラド; 12 Oct, 2015 @ 12:34pm
I do think creating a CC PC record would be fair though. It would be obsolete once someone decides to use say Ages or Ralph, but it would make for some Ryo fun in the meantime.
Gya100fam 12 Oct, 2015 @ 12:58pm 
Originally posted by phoenix:
@Thino
I don't believe Adders should be taken into the same account as DV and RL. To do the skip you have to aim for a specific spot in the wall, there is a barrier there but what you're aiming for is the 'hole'. But again, you have to intentionally be aiming to go OoB there
Then that relates to the OOB discussion which I suppose will come up later.

What about the Chilly Castle separation?
edit: fair enough

Originally posted by Equinox:
One question, with this in mind, can't that be said for every other course out there? If so, wouldn't all of the tracks have to be separated at that point, or will individual tracks take the split?
So far Chilly Castle is the only track affected but I believe we should be flexible, about what is coming up in the future
Last edited by Gya100fam; 12 Oct, 2015 @ 12:59pm
Equinox 12 Oct, 2015 @ 1:00pm 
Originally posted by xEponaSWAG420x:
Originally posted by Equinox:
One question, with this in mind, can't that be said for every other course out there? If so, wouldn't all of the tracks have to be separated at that point, or will individual tracks take the split?
So far Chilly Castle is the only track affect but I believe we should be flexible, about what is coming up in the future
Alright. Yeah, I agree.
Last edited by Equinox; 12 Oct, 2015 @ 1:01pm
Fawn Queen 12 Oct, 2015 @ 1:29pm 
I'd rather keep them all together but am not entirely opposed to splitting some of the tracks. I don't see the need to split tracks that have no differences at all.
Paul 12 Oct, 2015 @ 1:41pm 
Yeah I'd say only split tracks that have significant differences. Other than that, PC and Console should still compete.
Originally posted by xEponaSWAG420x:
Originally posted by phoenix:
@Thino
I don't believe Adders should be taken into the same account as DV and RL. To do the skip you have to aim for a specific spot in the wall, there is a barrier there but what you're aiming for is the 'hole'. But again, you have to intentionally be aiming to go OoB there
Then that relates to the OOB discussion which I suppose will come up later.
Nah what I meant was that (ignoring the OoB stuff for a second) I definitely don't think a run on console using the cut should ever be considered cross-plat WR because it's only possible on console, but since the only way to do it is to aim for a specific spot (i.e can't be done unintentionally) I think that any console run staying the PC path should be eligible for cross-plat WR.
Gya100fam 12 Oct, 2015 @ 3:45pm 
Originally posted by phoenix:
Originally posted by xEponaSWAG420x:
Then that relates to the OOB discussion which I suppose will come up later.
Nah what I meant was that (ignoring the OoB stuff for a second) I definitely don't think a run on console using the cut should ever be considered cross-plat WR because it's only possible on console, but since the only way to do it is to aim for a specific spot (i.e can't be done unintentionally) I think that any console run staying the PC path should be eligible for cross-plat WR.
Makes sense to me, they're easy enough to differentiate
Chaos Epoch 12 Oct, 2015 @ 5:20pm 
I still don't understand why rule two was even proposed. different systems = different records.

don't bring characters into this. I don't get annoyed when Ryo or that annoying yogs guy get used, if someone manages to break a record with one of them, I wouldn't say that they should do it again with another character simply because I don't have them.

but PC and console versions are different versions. this should in itself be enough to seperate them. an analogy would be rugby league to rugby union.

a console world record is a console world record. a pc world record is a pc world record. what's the fuss? pc is simply the more popular union that gets more attention.
Originally posted by Chaos Epoch:
I still don't understand why rule two was even proposed. different systems = different records.

don't bring characters into this. I don't get annoyed when Ryo or that annoying yogs guy get used, if someone manages to break a record with one of them, I wouldn't say that they should do it again with another character simply because I don't have them.

but PC and console versions are different versions. this should in itself be enough to seperate them. an analogy would be rugby league to rugby union.

a console world record is a console world record. a pc world record is a pc world record. what's the fuss? pc is simply the more popular union that gets more attention.
It wasn't proposed, it's just been that way since launch. Consoles had been competing cross-plat before PC was even released. Naturally when PC released it continued this way.
While you do technically hold your platform's WR, its just been custom within our community to refer to the cross-plat WR as WR.
You're saying they're two different versions, this isn't entirely true. Tell me the difference between Samba Studios on PC and console, Ocean View, Dragon Canyon, Shibuya Downtown, etc, etc.. The fact is you can't, because there are no differences between the versions (other than whats already been stated ofc). So why end cross-platform competition?
Had we not competed cross-plat I would've stopped playing just a couple months after launch. And I definitely wouldn't have stuck around to create all the strats that I have had I known my runs would've been brushed off as console only.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1058842-Official-Fusion-World-Record-Thread
Cross-platform competition is only ever healthy and should be embraced imo
Chaos Epoch 12 Oct, 2015 @ 6:37pm 
look, you can value it like that if you wish, I don't care. but at the end of the day the version numbers are different.

if you tell me such and such is the "world record holder" and they have a record on console... well no, not to me they aren't. PC is the most relevant for times since it's the most pouplar and up to date, that's not to say PC takes proity but they're the record holder for console as other guy is record holder for PC.

if the two wanna shake dicks about, that's up to them really. like I said in the orignal conversation, rule 2 and 5 I don't understand and will never comply with.

oh, but characters should be taken out of the question entirely. any character should be fine to use.
Last edited by Chaos Epoch; 12 Oct, 2015 @ 6:39pm
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Date Posted: 12 Oct, 2015 @ 11:30am
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