either make their accuracy back to normal or, find a way to make the damage less and less the further you are away from your target. With our limitations, its probably not easy without a source coder. Or maybe a nice in between with the original accuracy and the one youve created.

6. Create a "retard factor" for any weapon that forces you to use SEMI AUTO (i.e. SEMI only weapons) and give them 2 times the spread that they should have. We should exclude weapons with zero effective recoil like the Remington 870, M82A1, M24 and KS23. What this means for current M3S90 is that its damage will be reduced from 144 to 125, which creates a 13.2% drop in damage per second and damage per magazine.

not OP, just too accurate for what we expected from shotgun's spread. And after all, we're now accustomed to this constant relovution, feels like being part of Apple Inc. xD

Not sure what you mean by "constant revolution", we made one major balance which included getting rid of the broken burst, then we fixed up m82a1 and MGs and refined SMGs. We fixed up headshots and the drop off model which people generally didn't notice. Then after bitching about burst fire we made a compromise on that by bringing it back and giving it an average damage value. I don't see how you can first complain about BURST being taken away in the first balance I did, and then when I put it back now you're complaining about "too many changes". Seems crazy to me. One major balance in April 2015 and one unofficial patch 2 years after the last official patch, woah woah slow down! Seems like any thing we do you're just going to complain.

People generally don't understand that even though the shotguns have more accuracy it's still the worst SEMI accuracy of the whole game and people's minds are being clouded by the plethora of close range maps and the over use and reliance on FULL AUTO. If everyone used their rifles on SEMI, you wouldn't always be running in all gung ho and you will adjust your play style for that (like you are forced to with shotguns because they are SEMI only) and so you will try and get a bit more range between you and your opponent and then you can profit from the extreme high accuracy and low recoil nature of SEMI. Not only that, people have been constantly demonising heavy armour simply because it took a few more shots to kill than they expected... I mean... that's kinda stupid. Then they will grab heavy armour and try hard with m3 and compare that to using an assault rifle with medium armour, when they can still get heavy armour with an AR minus legs or arm armour.

The shotguns having tighter spread made it more of a skillfull weapon now, and less of a point blank range only weapon. Before it was kind of boring IMO where you could aim perfectly and whether you got hits or not was a lot more based on probability (chance). What's the point of that? If you're used to some mainstream game that made shotguns an afterthought and only for super close ranges, why does FA:S have to be the same in that respect? Insurgency has shotguns that can reach out if you aim and select the correct ammunition and use the right tactics. I don't see much "complaining" about that over there. I thought that what made FA:S and FA great was that there was a learning curve and you had to work on your skill and proficiency with the various weapons to become competitive. I though that added value to the game, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe we should make it dead easy like some of my suggestions/fixes above. If we gave all the ARs all awesome FULL AUTO fire modes you could just run around AUTOing everything. It's up to you guys, i'm willing to listen.

Now, going back to the problem I mentioned before about people not understanding how the mod is supposed to work at the ranges assault rifles were designed for. This is your own fault, but when any map gets chosen which is at the perfect range for assault rifles, instead of using SEMI like the old days of FA, people will almost all grab snipers instead. I tried to make snipers less of a run and gun weapon by hitting their standing accuracy rather hard and it will definitely be more noticable at these ranges so it will be easier to use assault rifles at their niche range, as they were intended. But for some reason, not naming names but, some of the regulars on the server constantly demonise everything everybody does and constantly say that 30 out of the 38 weapons are OP, and so, any of these false perceptions and incorrect usage of weapons is all created by your own selves and so please stop complaining to me about it. If you want to bring up these issues it's better to do it privately instead of telling everyone look this is broken, and then complain when everybody then goes and tries exactly what you said was broken (even if it was just a false perception that it was broken based on bad play style like FULL AUTOing everything with assault rifles). If you want to run around combatting m3 at close range with FULL AUTO, try some of the machine guns, since they have better FULL AUTO cones compared to the default value because they compromise having one extra magazine (but make sure you crouch and don't move since that's the way they are designed to be used). Also all of the SMGs make compromises to get better FULL AUTO except for the mp5a4 which I left normal so you have the variety compared to the open bolt SMGs which suffer a loss in SEMI AUTO accuracy. Then you have PDWs which all gain better FULL AUTO just the same way as machine guns (by giving up an extra magazine) and on top of that, the open bolt PDWs have an even better FULL AUTO at the cost of a worse SEMI. So, in essence, they would be the best weapons to compete in FULL AUTO mindlessly and no matter the range, if that's your ticket.

Trying one weapon out of 38 guns and playing the new mod for two days then calling it OP doesn't seem to make any sense logically. How can you deem a weapon to be OP if you haven't messed around as much with the other weapons, sometimes people get lucky shots etc. or they are just playing casually and not as hard as you are trying to play. There are a lot more weapons that I'm aware of that are OP, and I have identified the root cause thanks to the CONSTANT FEEDBACK, you can stop "proving" it to me by constantly grabbing weapons which are broken and trying hard with them and using heavy armour when you normally wouldn't and then telling other people it's broken and forcing them to use it. I got the message loud and clear and what you are doing is going to just undermine the server and the player base including yourself. I'm not planning to make another change very soon because it's not good to just keeping making changes for several reasons. Despite this, I'm not sure why everyone keeps running to me about every single problem withe very single part of the mod. I don't know how to fix everything and can't fix everything because I/we don't have full control. I just worked hard and took the work of the balance upon myself because the server became ultra competitive (thanks to the player attitude again) and it was an unfortunate problem that in order to be competitive in 2.0.2 vanilla there were only about 3 assault rifles which you could use which was the AK-47, AK-74 and M16A2 (this is ignoring snipers being OP of course). Remember that? hmm? Do you want to go back to those days? Remember when M14, SKS and G3A3 were essentially useless? G3A3 did 37 damage and AK-47 did 36 in comparison? If you want to make changes/fixes to the plethora of problems (most non-critical) within the mod, how about you get to work, or do some investigation? You can also work with the server operators and ask them to implement your solution.

Like I said, my main focus was on the balance in order to keep the variety even if the game/server attitude got ultra competitive. I've been trying to explain to people that when I worked on the balance I standardised a lot of values where there didn't seem to be a logical reason for those particular weapons to have such a different value and it helped with keeping the model purely mathematical without any bias (as much as possible and without too much reliance). Because of this we have been able to narrow down exactly what is the cause of the current problems and I've come up with a much better solution than I was able to come up with in my previous rush/haste. We could have done a lot more testing, but this step really needed to be taken and I was hoping it was going to be a reward for the regulars who stayed on and would keep them interesting. I didnt expect the complaining and sabotage/exploiting to ramp up to maximum. Some of the saboteurs could have tested more rigorously with the weapons that changed the most and maybe we could have got on top of the problem earlier but instead they chose to use the weapons that barely changed, or just grab one weapon and use that for the duration of their time. But I think I still would have released since, as I said, this step needed to be taken and I was hoping it would inject some life/enthusiasm to the mod instead of inciting such an incredibly toxic response. The main point of the thread was to try and stop the sabotage and self-sabotage of the mod, as it stands. Even if there's a problem with it, we don't want to make a dozen changes too soon, and so it's useless to continue harping on about problems on the server and inciting others to seek out and use only the few weapons that seem broken. For what purpose? Let's just try to enjoy the game? Most of the problems are very subtle and not all players are sitting there trying their best. If you're going to bring that extremely competitive side no matter who is on the other team then it's not going to jibe with players just coming and playing with a casual pub mentality.

Also, I don't know if you guys appreciate how hard it was to work on and refine 38 weapons in terms of balance. I'm not complaining or making a big deal about how hard it was bcause at that time it was a pleasure and the result felt really good, however, my feelings are starting to turn based on the current attitude/atmosphe on the server and now the board it seems. It's really easy to make a snide remark and go on about your day, but don't simultaneously think that you can troll someone and expect them to then turn around and say, "hey, thanks for being an asshole to me, I just really feel like doing exactly what you suggested now!". If things don't change I don't think I'll be motivated to follow through with another patch and you guys can take over the balance/server operation

http://www.pcgamer.com/valve-rolls-back-csgo-rifle-and-pistol-changes

http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2015/12/13394/

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